TulipTools Internet Business Owners and Online Sellers Community

Full Version: Should thee Ethical Sell Through Tool Used by 250 PESA Members Be Allowed?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
There is a long thread on OTWA started by Toy Ranch which discusses the manipulation of a loophole in eBay's listing revision policy that is being used by 250 PESA members to gain an unfair competitive advantage over other sellers..

Below is a copy of one of my posts from the eBay Stores board about this tool:.

Quote:Ethical 2004 has come up with an auction management tool called the "Sell Through Tool".  The tool is being used by 250 members of PESA (and ethical has limited its use to just 250 sellers). 

What the tool does is use a loophole in eBay listing policy in order to play with the listing durations of auction listings and keep them on the heavily trafficed 'ending soon' pages for the majority of their duration--thereby giving these 250 sellers an  advantage over all other eBay sellers.  Sellers who have used this tool have reported sales increases of 25%-50%.

The tool also allows these sellers to in effect evade ebay fees by listing an item initially for 1-day, but through revisions of the duration keep it running for 7 days and on the "ending soon" page for 4 of those 7 days.  By contrast, these 250 sellers' competitors (you and I) would have to pay 4 listing fees in order to achieve the same 4-day "ending soon" traffic boost that these sellers are getting from one listing fee.

To see how this tool manipulates listing durations, look at the below from one PESA member's listing (with the first listing duration revision coming 11 hours after the item was listed).  This item spent 4 of its 7 days on the high traffic "ending soon" page as a result of this manipulation of listing durations:

revisions:

Jul-21-05 21:10:17 PDT Listing Duration
Jul-23-05 21:10:17 PDT Listing Duration
Jul-25-05 21:10:10 PDT Listing Duration

So,

A. Is this tool fair to the thousands/millions of eBay sellers who are put at an unfair competitive advantage by the use of this tool by 250 PESA members?

B.  Is it perhaps time for eBay to close this loophole which is giving these 250 PESA members who have access to this tool an unfair competitive advantage over eBay's other sellers?
*sob pinkslapped*

eBay apparently doesn't want the existence of this practice to become known to the "eBay masses".
Quote:Recently we became aware that your eBay registered account was involved in the
following activity:

Inappropriate threads started in Community Help Boards, i.e. eBay policy
commentary started in the Community Help Registration Board.   Posting auction
reports or member violations. To report suspected violations, please use our
online forms:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/inv..._to_report

which is not permitted at eBay.

Bite Me eBay  ;D
I read about that somewhere and sent an inquiry for more information about it a few months ago and they didn't so much as respond to me.  If I could use it I would so I see no reason to be upset that other people do it.  When I have high dollar listings on eBay I usually do that manually myself (start one day, go to 3, 5, 7, 10 as needed).

I take advantage of the "ending first" traffic on Overstock and Yahoo by running only one day auctions so that I always have stuff ending.  I need to start throwing in a few 10 days listings too though to take advantage of the featured, shopzilla, etc. that you don't get from one day auctions.
This quote from an OTWA post by one of the sell through tools' developers:

Quote:Whether or not it is ethical is up to the individual I guess. It simply automates a process that anyone could perform manually. Is it fair to limit it to just 250 people? I don't know the answer to that. That number was chosen based on one seller ID per major category. If more than a few people used the tool in any single category, it would rapidly diminish the usefulness of the tool. I could give you many examples of things that I don't think are fair, but what's the point? Whether it is fair or not is really up to each person. The larger sellers on eBay get all sorts of perks. I just consider this one more, albeit one more that they pay dearly to use.
eBay is obviously despearately trying to prevent knowledge of the loophole in its listing system from reaching its average user.

A thread started by Anita on the ebay stores board has now been removed...one day after eBay removed my thread from the ebay stores Board and removed 3 threads started by Emily on eBay's Sellers Central, Auction Listings, and Bidders boards.  :Smile

Someone asked in yet another new thread started on the eBay stores board:

Quote:"What is so dangerous about the topic?"

my answer:

Simple. A. If every seller started using that loophole eBay would suffer a large drop in listing fee revenues which eBay desperately wants to avoid. B. eBay is afraid to remove that loophole because by doing so it would upset its largest sellers who now benefit the most from it, and so it would like to keep "the masses" from learning about the loophole so it isn't forced to anger its "elite" by closing the loophole.
The below is a reply from an ebay employee to seller Toy Ranch concerning his question about the practice used by some of eBay's largest sellers of manipulating listing durations to achieve higher placement in eBay search results.  According to this eBay employee the automated changing of listing durations currently being done by  250 of eBay's largest sellers who are using Ethical's Sell Through Tool is in violation of eBay rules.

Quote:Claire*ebay told me the practice is a search manipulation and my thread was removed for encouraging sellers to violate eBay rules. This should be interesting...
umm, haven't they ever heard of google cache?  :Smile make that a double eye roll  :Smile :Smile

the pre-this afternoon cache'd copy with the sell through tool  listed:

http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:htt...tools.com/


EDITED to add: This likely means eBay will allow these 250 sellers to continue to use the now unadvertised tool, while penalizing anyone else who tries to manipulate its listing system in a similar manner...kind of like its "look the other way" policy for keyword spamming and web site links violations by its largest sellers.
Quote: eBay Bans Developer from Marketing Auction Extender

eBay is in discussions with one of its developers about a tool that eBay says violates the spirit of its search manipulation rules...

...Durzy said the tool from Ethical Technologies allowed a listing to appear in the "ending soonest" results, the default order of search results, four times in a 7-day period. "We don't want this tool to be out there," Durzy said. "It changes what the eBay buyer experience is. If buyers have a worse experience, they don't come back."

from AuctionBytes

http://auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y05/m08/i09/s02
Quote:"My name is Sarah XXXXXXXX and I am the senior policy manager for the Search and Browse Manipulation policies...

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?t...1000052590

*waves to the 'person' Puke who reportedly has exclusive rights to "do it" in the key categories*
What a complete circus this whole thing has been.

Former ET employees vehemently defend a tool they've never been paid for--with a great deal of emotion and rigidity.

eBay's employees, pinks, and customer service reps advise that the tool is a search manipulator and that it is not eBay legal. eBay spokespeople say the tool violates the spirit of the community, and possibly the terms of service--yet the tool is still in use.

The 250 person limit is claimed to be (choose any of the following, depending upon who you talk to):

--bogus; strictly a marketing technique to generate demand
--based on server limitations at ET
--based on server limitations at eBay
--based on a one user per category concept (screwing all others who don't get to be the chosen one for their category" (possibly the worst of all)
--an exclusive right, based on approvals and qualifications

A guy who sells keys gets to be the exclusive seller in his category using the tool, thereby screwing all other people who sell keys.

eBay demands that ET stop MARKETING the tool, but does not shut it down. Half of eBay's employees seem convinved it's a search engine manipulator. The other half is silent. The guys who got locked in in the beginning get to keep using it. Those who didn't, or don't know about it, can't even try to sign up now.

and the band plays on...
Pages: 1 2