TulipTools Internet Business Owners and Online Sellers Community

[quote author=eclectica link=topic=3775.msg62925#msg62925 date=1185825134]
[quote author=ironwood_etc link=topic=3775.msg62922#msg62922 date=1185818255]
My question remains. What are they afraid of?? :blinkie:
[/quote]

Just a wild stab in the dark guess... the ones left (and active) have formed friendships. To leave, would mean siding with us - "the enemy". Consciously or unconsciously, I think the fear is of rejection by their "peers". WP isn't a business, it's one big, warm, fuzzy family. God forbid you run out on the family. (Ewww... I just had a visual of the Manson family).
[/quote]

I have to agree - I stayed as long as I did, even without any hope of real sales or a real site to sell from, because of the friendships I formed. I felt like a traitor in a way. In the long run though, those bonds weren't paying my bills for me (not even coming close!) so I had to do what I had to do for me and my businesses and I left (been doing much better since too!).

Some sellers who were still there when I left... I was heartbroken almost to leave them behind. But I see they've left as well.

Of all the sellers that are left there, the one I was concerned about (she really is a true business and just a real sweetheart of a person who wanted some place to sell her wares without the work involved of her own site and without eBay fees), had an empty store as of Sherrand's report yesterday - and I'm happy for that - she deserves more than what she was getting at WP.

But I think, as a business, you want to please everyone, and if that means staying at WP - some may choose to do so thinking the 10.00 per month isn't that much considering they're keeping customers there... and should they leave, they may lose those customers from spite.

This is going back a couple days but I'm going to say it as long as I'm here. I stay and read and comment here on the TT WP thread because it's fun. I LIKE the people here. I KNOW WP is a dead horse, I know it's just a matter of time now, I know there's not going to a successful end to WP anymore - I just don't believe there's a remote chance of that happening.

Knowing that WP is for all intent dead in the water is one thing - but, something inside me, maybe a warped something at that, but that something inside me wants to see the final poof of smoke when it goes. I don't devote a lot of my time to watching the site - or monitoring the sellers there --- never have really since I left --- but some little devilish thing in me wants to see that final poof anyway.

So yes, I may talk on about the dead horse - it may be over with under the smoke and mirrors that are going on - the owner of WP may be on to bigger and better scams... that's all good - I still want to see the poof.

[quote author=amy link=topic=3775.msg62967#msg62967 date=1185833879]

Quote:so they will not ever see the hand on the plug 

A few of them were there when the plug was pulled on WP1 and still rushed to sign up when WP2 was announced--and they'll probably be among the first to join WP3.
[/quote]

Scary, isn't it? But I think you're dead on.

Quote:This is going back a couple days but I'm going to say it as long as I'm here. I stay and read and comment here on the TT WP thread because it's fun. I LIKE the people here. I KNOW WP is a dead horse, I know it's just a matter of time now, I know there's not going to a successful end to WP anymore - I just don't believe there's a remote chance of that happening.

Knowing that WP is for all intent dead in the water is one thing - but, something inside me, maybe a warped something at that, but that something inside me wants to see the final poof of smoke when it goes. I don't devote a lot of my time to watching the site - or monitoring the sellers there --- never have really since I left --- but some little devilish thing in me wants to see that final poof anyway.

So yes, I may talk on about the dead horse - it may be over with under the smoke and mirrors that are going on - the owner of WP may be on to bigger and better scams... that's all good - I still want to see the poof.

Well said, Moon. I completely agree with everything you said. I honestly don't give a wombat poo poo what goes on over there... I can't even access the forums and don't care enough to get another ID. I enjoy the chat here and the people. I'm more interested in MY future than Ray Romeo's. That said, I still want to see the final curtain come down.

Great post. I'm watching for the final curtain also. There's just one store that I sooo want to see gone. I remember clicking on it and for me it was WOW I wish I knew how to do that. I can't believe with all her knowledge that she isn't seeing that the end is near. My other concerns have closed. I'm banned so that's as far as I can go. Well, tomorrows another day  :couch:

[quote author=ironwood_etc link=topic=3775.msg62993#msg62993 date=1185845737]
There's just one store that I sooo want to see gone. I remember clicking on it and for me it was WOW I wish I knew how to do that.  :couch:
[/quote]

Which store?

GiGi's

[quote author=ironwood_etc link=topic=3775.msg62997#msg62997 date=1185854486]
GiGi's
[/quote]

She rocks!  I hear she has much more up her sleeve than what we see so far.  Everyone can watch her and learn how to kick major tail in online selling.

I have retired from editorial posting here, so I'll let those still active on this thread do the honors of commenting.  (boldings mine)

AndRay's follow-up to the "analysis":

Quote:wagglepopCC2   31 Jul 2007 00:01       


Hello Wagglepop Members,

After considering it for a few days since this initial post above, I think a follow up might be beneficial, if even perhaps only for my own personal reasons.

Primarily outlining the direction we feel Wagglepop should take moving forward, I will try to be as detailed as possible in relating how current participation levels affect that planning process overall.

While I personally remain keenly disappointed over the fact that everything was designed, built and in place to support even the most explosive growth (and fully financially supported by Wagglepop by way of budget for one full year) as outlined above, my overall thinking has changed a bit based on what I have observed over the past 14 full months in operation.

I continue to be extremely proud to be associated with (and have Wagglepop represented by) our dedicated seller base. Outside of that current base there are some very disappointing and harsh realities about some elements of the general online selling community that must be addressed and acknowledged.

While I consider myself experienced and able to handle a variety of project issues, after over 20 years promoting and marketing businesses of all types, I had never encountered the biggest problems and most resistance coming from the clients themselves. It is decidedly peculiar and uncharted territory. An almost incomprehensibly high percentage of the people we tried to help by investing and underwriting well over $100,000 (in addition to thousands of unpaid work hours for some) in their business and futures in creating Wagglepop have done little more than toss that effort aside, many with an especially disappointing level of malice.

And that is a pretty awful reality, and one which I am having trouble absorbing completely without some anger involved.
We created a feature-rich well performing site and had a powerful plan in place, well funded, ready and positioned to help thousands of sellers but for one simple request in return as the lynchpin of the formation of the marketplace: good faith participation, and about ten bucks per month. Just about the cost of one decent lunch for one day.

That's it, literally. Nothing more, or less. A few thousand sellers at 10 dollars each would have given us the revenues to market the site, and evolve it, and get us noticed as the site where eBayers finally took a stand. In addition to existing vesting agreements, we had all kinds of projects "in the works" including a full-scale code redesign that would have truly created something remarkable. Not to mention expansions that included search, shopping comparison, and social networking among others.

As noted, agreements we worked hard to negotiate and attain would have made something very special very possible. An alternative. Supported. Funded. Evolving and growing.

However, due to the currently relatively low participation levels and the odd forces that are behind that, it remains an unfulfilled destiny, and that is unfortunate. Unfortunate as it relates to our company's investment of both money and time, but more so for our dedicated sellers or potential future sellers. Everyone deserves better than to have our site and our dreams stomped on by nothing more than the online version of schoolyard bullies.

At this time Wagglepop must reflect site participation in terms of revenues. Fiscal responsibility is not only my job, but a solid idea and a current business necessity. There is no more money to invest except that which the site generates a profit from from this day forward.

One member posted that they wished they could have been more in the loop, or more informed.

My response to that general notion if shared by others (not specifically that member) is that if the site, the performance, the features, the near instant Customer Care, and the attentiveness of staff to membership requests (including adding features at times within one week of request) wasn't enough to be informed about our intentions, then nothing ever would be. We near fell over from lack of sleep at times to be as customer responsive and in tune as we possibly could be. Karen Morrow was the champion of that, and her loss and the specific incident that precipitated that continues to pain me in ways that are difficult to relate.

I am, and will continue to remain, absolutely shocked that Wagglepop is not a much larger enterprise today due primarily either to a) the "bully element" online doing what they generally do: march the streets of the internet with keyboard torches and calls for the head of anyone who tries to make things better, or, b) those who expected an instant, free, and easy eBay alternative.

Wagglepop is a really good site. It performs well, has lots of useful and innovative proprietary features, is easy to use, has solid core values that members can be proud of and has people who care passionately about making a difference. There is not another auction style site around with our combination of features and performance and dedication.

Starting right now, everything we do is going to be focused on our existing dedicated seller base and helping them to build their businesses and help fulfill their online commerce goals and dreams. We will work hard to attract more like them, and continue to do all the things necessary to attract the casual online buyer to our marketplace. 14 months of account delinquencies (for those for whom the notion of "trust" is unfamiliar) if found through audit still unreferred are being sent for collection beginning today.

For those who do not wish our help or very existence in building an alternative, that help and consideration ends today. Anyone who does not support Wagglepop or feels the need to be unhappy with our efforts, my staff, or perhaps their own shortcomings has our full support to do so, but not here.

Wagglepop is for those who believe in Wagglepop, and support it, and we will continue to work for and support each and every day as best we can every member that wants to build their business with us. As with any business, in the end hard work and sacrifice always win out, dimming the torches of even the angriest most misdirected and misinformed of mobs.
Andrew Pittino
WP Director of Business Development & Customer Care

Popper reply:

Quote:XXX   31 Jul 2007 00:48       


So what happened to the budgeted money that was supposed to be used for marketing? (if you don't mind me asking)..

AndRay's response:

Quote:wagglepopCC2   31 Jul 2007 02:37       


XXX,

$42,510 was spent on a variety of marketing efforts, primarily banner and text ads along with a banner variation known as "targeted leave behinds" both on the Web and embedded as a part of POP3 activity (though unrelated to email marketing). A pretty standard and effective package.

Operating at a loss required the funds be acquired through the company and a business loan, which we now carry as outright expense in repayment.

The results were spotty at best although very near inline with expectations. We attracted many potential buyers but to a marketplace with widespread "gaps" in item and product offerings. Keyword search results ended in "0 matches" in excess of 65% of the time for traffic directly generated through the campaign, creating the impression for buyers that the marketplace was too empty to shop from or return to.

Everything about a marketplace starts with "stocking the shelves" and creating an atmosphere of being able to fulfill buyer needs both today and in the future.

Until the day arrives where online sellers decide to stock the shelves as noted above by using the $9.95 SmartSell Pro Package opportunity to list all of their items and products, that "empty" feeling will continue for the casual online buying community as a whole. That limits the marketplace to specialty and niche Stores, and will limit traffic overall.

The more sellers we have that open Stores and list, the more active the marketplace becomes and the more sales that are made. The more sales made, the more people refer the site and return to buy more, which in turn attracts more sellers. This all results in more revenues generated for the site, and the more we can market, supporting the entire cycle.

That's the same cycle of any successful marketplace or retail business. There is simply no way to promote or market a sparsely populated marketplace, in any industry online or offline.

As per the existing Information Policy, we do not publicly discuss specific marketing plans. Publication of Sales Reports requires a full time staff member for compilation and resolution, and as such ended with the loss of our full time CC Karen Morrow. We have every expectation that they will return as site participation increases and supports a new full time CC lead at some point in the future.

Andrew Pittino
WP Director of Business Development & Customer Care

And the reply from you-know-who.

Quote:XXX   31 Jul 2007 03:34       


Andrew, thank you again for the informative post. I have not previously expressed this here, but it has been on my heart for a long time that highly effective advertising for a site the size of Wagglepop at this time is unrealisticly challenging and costly.

I had felt that it would be more beneficial to invest effort and funding in other high priority projects first, especially a checkout system that will allow buyers to pay right away if they prefer to rather than waiting for an invoice. Now I am not at all trying to say that Wagglepop coulda shoulda woulda done 'this' instead of 'that'. I recognize that my opinion was in the minority (like maybe the only one), and WP was under intense pressure to bend over backwards in an effort to try to please impossible-to-please and highly ignorant people (all of whom are no longer even here), and it was simply a lose-lose situation. I feel very sad for the owner and management of WP, and for all of us dedication sellers here that those pea-brained people did the damage that they did and now idioticly root for the 'plug to be pulled' from the sidelines. They would be raging furious if a group of numbskulls were incessantly rooting for the owner of eCrater or whatever their site-of-the-month is to 'pull the plug' (not insulting eCrater here).

That said, we have THE BEST site on net despite who chooses to ignore that fact. We have learned many lessons, and are increasing our knowledge and experience daily. As long as we simply use the brains that God gave us, and continue to do what we know is right, it will be onward and upward from here. We are just getting warmed up.

Edit:

Quote:Sneakymagenta
Will Ray's overpriced yellowed magazine cutouts get a bid before Overpriced Floormat Guy gets a sale?

Yep.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1960-Sport-Scope-13-...dZViewItem

RR Wrote:the fact that everything was designed, built and in place to support even the most explosive growth

This forum is running on a more powerful server than the one WP uses - need I say more.

RR Wrote:We near fell over from lack of sleep at times to be as customer responsive and in tune as we possibly could be.

The 5 or 6 times when the site was down all night must have fallen on those very rare occasions when you were able to find time to sleep.

RR Wrote:Wagglepop is a really good site. It performs well, has lots of useful and innovative proprietary features,

You're using RScript jackass.  There are 100 other sites using the same script with the same features and you have fewer features of the script enabled than most sites.

RR Wrote:I had never encountered the biggest problems and most resistance coming from the clients themselves.

Did you spend the last 20 years cooking fries in McDonald's?  In any business one of the biggest sources of problems and headaches are the customers/clients. :

RR Wrote:10 dollars each...Just about the cost of one decent lunch for one day.

Ahh $10 lunches, the confirmation of time spent in McDonald's. :twistedevil:

RR Wrote:especially disappointing level of malice.

There is far more malice aimed at eBay (by buyers and sellers both on and off eBay...and on TT) :

RR Wrote:I am, and will continue to remain, absolutely shocked that Wagglepop is not a much larger enterprise today due primarily either to a) the "bully element" online doing what they generally do: march the streets of the internet with keyboard torches and calls for the head of anyone who tries to make things better, or, b) those who expected an instant, free, and easy eBay alternative.

The more likely culprits for your failure are:

c) your site is an eBay knockoff.  There is nothing "revolutionary" about it to entice auction buyers to switch from eBay

d) you're oblivious to the offerings of your larger competitors iOffer, eBid, Ecrater, craigslist, Etsy, bla, bla, boinkin' bla who offer sellers several times more traffic and buyers.  Most of them also offer either free stores or free listings.  Your site is not cheap in comparison to the competition.

e) the world has changed and the average seller today is looking at opening their own website and taking complete control of their business rather than moving to an eBay clone and being forced to shape their business plan to fit some boinktard auction site owner's idea of how it should be run .

f)Auctions are out, fixed price is in.  You're targeting the 20% of online buyers (auction users) while ignoring the 80% who won't buy/register at an auction site. Sellers and buyers are also moving to niche sites and classifieds.

g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z) you're an mileyazwipe: (which a major reason why sellers fled your site)

RR Wrote:eBay alternative.

funny words coming from someone (you) who is feeding Meg's pocket by having an eBay store and listing items on eBay.

RR Wrote:$42,510 was spent on a variety of marketing efforts, primarily banner

umm, banner ads lost their effectiveness in driving traffic to sites 7 years ago.  The only thing they're good for now is branding (and your business isn't at the stage where branding should be your primary aim when buying advertising). More confirmation of my McDonald's theory. :

pea brained numbskull Wrote:impossible-to-please and highly ignorant people (all of whom are no longer even here)

Care to compare monthly sales? You'll lose badly.

He takes no blame for any of this   This behavior starts with mom, it's always someone elses fault-   they're meanies.  Didn't you just know it would be everybodies fault but his?! He's Shocked??!! They apparently don't know how much planning he did to bring this about. Activating his store on Ebay, what excuse will he give for that move? Oh, I have to generate income to cover debts and keep the site going. It'd be like my CEO letting the business go to hell and all the time building his own company. OH, that happens doesn't it.   Well, here's to the loser sellers that could not keep the faith and the naysayers who ruined WP. May they all prosper and have success  . Remember the wheel turn slowly, but it will turn on Ray  :peepants:

Quote:Quote from: RR
Wagglepop is a really good site. It performs well, has lots of useful and innovative proprietary features,

You're using RScript jackass.  There are 100 other sites using the same script with the same features and you have fewer features of the script enabled than most sites.

This is one of the things that really got to me.  After reading here and following links to a demo for this RScript it became quite clear to me that we were being lied to at WP.  There was no team of people working to implement these features.  There was just some boinktard holding back and not turning a bunch of the features on.  

Quote:After considering it for a few days since this initial post above, I think a follow up might be beneficial, if even perhaps only for my own personal reasons.

I guess he wasn't done pointing the finger or finished with his rant.