TulipTools Internet Business Owners and Online Sellers Community

I saw this mentioned in a Times (of London) article about fraud on eBay UK, but this is an American company.  The service might be useful if you sell high ticket items (computers, eBay Motors, etc).

Reliabid http://www.reliabid.com/public/index.html

This is what they do:

Quote:The ReliaBid program automatically inserts a warning seal into its members' auctions to deter non-paying bidders. The goal of the ReliaBid program is to prevent non-paying bidders before they happen. However, should a buyer turn out to be a non-paying bidder, ReliaBid offers access to debt collection services- including credit reporting- by one of the premier debt collection agencies in the United States.

Quote:The decision to collect or not collect on an unpaid item is always entirely up to you, the seller. If you decide to initiate the collection process you will find that using ReliaBid's "click through" service is easy and efficient. It only takes a few clicks to login, select the offending auction, enter some information about the auction, and authorize Hunter Warfield, Inc. to start work on your behalf.

Hunter Warfield is a nationally recognized debt collection firm. Now, they are ready to collect and credit report for you.

A collection may result in a series of up to four letters being sent to the non-paying bidder. In the unlikely event that you still do not receive payment, you may have the option to ask Hunter Warfiled to report the non-paying bidder to major credit bureaus, which may adversely affect the credit of the non-paying bidder.

The fee schedule is here:
http://www.reliabid.com/public/fees.html

There is a monthly fee to use the service ranging from $1.99 per month (under 10 auctions, $17.99 per collection) to $7.99 per month (over 100 auctions, $9.99 per collection)

9 months later:  AuctionByteMe just noticed that Reliabid exists.  ;D

Quote:Among eBay sellers' top challenges is the problem of deadbeat bidders, also known as non-paying bidders. A service from ReliaBid promises to tackle this challenge by bringing sellers together with a collection agency. ReliaBid warns potential bidders of this consequence through a seal that appears in participating seller listings...

ReliaBid uses seals to discourage shoppers from making frivolous bids by warning them that sellers will use a collection agency to go after non-paying bidders if they win the auction but don't pay for it.

Sellers who use ReliaBid may choose to initiate a collection on a case-by-case basis. If they do, ReliaBid automatically collects and pre-fills information on the non-paying bidder from the auction details. Sellers then click a button to authorize collection agency Hunter Warfield Inc. to start the collections process...

full article: http://auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/y206/m07/abu0170/s02

You guys can't be serious or endorsing this service are you?

I haven't read any of the links but must just say:

Yet another company with their hand in our pocket trying to shake us down
for what may happen in the future.

Even feebay can't effectively ENFORCE the "Your Bidding Is A Binding Contract" BS.

What would make anyone think that some
"service" we pay yet another "fee"
to could do any better?

The way I see it and it has happened a couple of times over the years.

If for some reason my winning bidder decided after the bid or BIN that they changed
their mind... that's OK with me, as I would want that option too
from a seller if I decided to change my mind.

Now I can understand how someone selling a car or boat would be pretty
upset that the buyer backed out. I've even seen some thread recently
where that has happened.
The seller's TOS was a deposit up front upon close of auction and that said deposit
was non-refundable if the buyer decided to back out later.

Perfectly legit in the real world. But NOT on ebay or if the buyer used a cc to pay that deposit.
If I'm not mistaken the buyer DID get his deposit back after backing out of the deal,
from either a) PayPal refunded it for them or b) their cc company did a charge back.

So what is an collection agency going to do at this point?

Take a screen shot of ebay's user agreement into a court and show
the judge the I  Accept Button?

I know that ones word can be considered as a binding contract
and one's actions (by using a service like ebay and bidding) may in theory, be one as well.

But in the real world?  after the fact... what can a seller really do?

One thing eBay can do BUT WON"T is NARU any buyer who re nigs
on even one item they bid and won on but DID NOT follow through
and ENFORCE their "Your Bidding Is a Binding Contract" clause they have in their UA.
I'd even go a step further and say ebay refund the seller his listing
fees to boot if an second chance offer was not an option
nor followed through by a lower bidder.

But nooooooooooo ebay would lose money that way
and we all know how that works now don't we.  LOL

I just can't imagine me trying to send some fickle winner to or through
the hassle of a collections agency trying to collect a debt that's NOT "in reality"
enforceable any way... and me paying them a fee to attempt to do so.

I do like how the dudes in the UK did it in that earlier auction but that was a scam set up.

Go to the blokes flat and give them a scare.
Take him to an ATM and get your moeny BACK.


But in this situation, If they don't want the item
and you haven't been paid.. what can you really do?

Other than pay a fee to this bogus company
to have them later tell you "sorry mate no can collect".
Thanks for the fees though.

Just another scam If you ask me.

xpp:  I doubt that the TT crew would endorse this company -- they're too smart for that.  They will, however, inform the peanut gallery that the company exists, cuz that's what this forum is all about -- letting us know what's out there, be it intelligent or absolutely insane.............. 

The only time I would suggest using a service like this is if you sell high priced items and you're prone to having problems with competitors who like registering multiple IDs and using them to interfere (i.e. bid and not pay) with your auctions.  In that case, I'm all for turning them over to a collection agency that might make their life a living hell and possibly report them to credit bureaus and damage their credit rating for the next 5-7 years...and the rates this company offers would be lower than directly hiring a harassment collection agency yourself.  In this scenario the primary purpose for using them is revenge not actually collecting any money ;D

For the vast majority of sellers (umm, maybe 99% of them) though this service would be a waste of money because I don't think buyers/NPB's would be deterred at the sight of a Reliabid seal in an auction listing. 

stardust

Well I didn't think they really were endorsing them.  :blinkie:
I was just being a smart asp and know a lot about the FDCPA and
what a collections company can and can not actually collect on. 

Anyone can claim they will get your money for a "fee"
but actually getting it remains to be seen. 

[quote author=bargainbloodhound link=topic=677.msg17343#msg17343 date=1152477059]
The only time I would suggest using a service like this is if you sell high priced items and you're prone to having problems with competitors who like registering multiple IDs and using them to interfere (i.e. bid and not pay) with your auctions.  In that case, I'm all for turning them over to a collection agency that might make their life a living hell and possibly report them to credit bureaus and damage their credit rating for the next 5-7 years...and the rates this company offers would be lower than directly hiring a harassment collection agency yourself.  In this scenario the primary purpose for using them is revenge not actually collecting any money ;D

For the vast majority of sellers (umm, maybe 99% of them) though this service would be a waste of money because I don't think buyers/NPB's would be deterred at the sight of a Reliabid seal in an auction listing. 

[/quote]

BBH I see your angle and I like it.  :twistedevil:

The harassment part could be fun and I would expect full reports too for the "fees".

I want to hear the harassed recorded conversations with collector Bob
and want copies of the letters sent on my behalf
and copies of both the harassed written responses (if any) and a copy
of their credit report showing that these guys really went to bat for me.

It would make for a great website to show the world what a Boinktard the
competitor who liked registering multiple IDs is really all about. 

===

Now with -out further a do. I must depart my fine TT buds.

Orders are still trickling in at this time
(usually on vacation in some tropical paradise right now)
and despite all the excuses we hear from the 
heads on ebay about slow or no sales being part of a "summer thing".

I must carry on and get off my butt and do some work so that my
"summer thing" customers get their widgets in a timely and professional manor. 

Rest assured... I WILL be back. If I'm slurring then... just tell me to go to bed. 

Quote:The only time I would suggest using a service like this is if you sell high priced items and you're prone to having problems with competitors who like registering multiple IDs and using them to interfere (i.e. bid and not pay) with your auctions. In that case, I'm all for turning them over to a collection agency that might make their life a living hell and possibly report them to credit bureaus and damage their credit rating for the next 5-7 years

My cousin Vinnie Two Fingers handles all that collection shit for me. 

I thought he only worked for PayPal.

Hi all,

I was on Google and came across this thread and thought I would try to add to the conversation. I'm Jon Rosen, and I co-founded ReliaBid. Here's the brief story: I used to sell a lot on eBay, and I used the money I made to put myself through graduate school at GWU's business school. One day while sitting through a (horrible) accounting class it struck me that that all my unpaid items were basically outstanding accounts receivable. It was money I was owed, but probably would never see. The class went on to discuss recovery of accounts receiveable and the collections process- and then, the accounting for that... At that point, the idea of a service that would help sellers complete more transactions began to make form in my mind and a number of years later was brought to fruition in the form of ReliaBid.

I'd like to cover a couple of points that were made and share my thoughts on them, I'd also really like your additional feedback, so please send some replies. If there are areas we can tweak, we want to do it. The service is only going to survive if we are successful for our clients- sellers such as yourselves- so, your feedback is really important to me.


[quote author=xppman link=topic=677.msg17329#msg17329 date=1152468869]
Yet another company with their hand in our pocket trying to shake us down
for what may happen in the future.
[/quote]
While I certainly agree with you that there are a lot of services that simply can't provide much in terms of a proven return, I don't think we are one of them. When I was selling I tried SquareTrade, it was nice, but I couldn't really tell if my sales went up and I already thought I was a good communicator, so I dropped the service, perhaps even bitterly, thinking "just trying to trim my profits down..." So, I completely understand your comment to the point where I've been there. 

Our service is different though in that it is easy to measure its performance. First and foremost, our service offers a seal program. And while yes, there have and are lots of seal programs, none that I know of have been designed to deter non-paying bidders. And we are an effective deterrent. Over the past year, we only had 1 out of every 62,000 items we protected be reported as unpaid and escalate to collections. So: how is this different? Well, beyond the obvious fact that it works (or has for others, at least) if you have unpaid items then you aren't selling as much as you could. You do know those items were unpaid- it isn't intangible- so if you figure out your unpaid item rate then you can measure and see if we reduce it. Our fees are so low at 1/4 of 1% (0.25) of the final value, that it is only $25 for every $10,000 you sell. So, if you deter just 1 or 2 unpaid items, the service pays for itself. Here's how I would think about it: say you sell 500 items per month and have a 3% (this is low from what we hear) NPB rate. That is 15 unpaid items / month. If we reduce that to 1%, you will sell and be paid for 10 more items. The sale of those items should not only pay for the service, but add to your profits on top of that.

So, I'd offer the possibility that ReliaBid isn't cutting into profits, it is increasing them. Sure, it costs 0.25% of your FV, but it should be bringing in more than that- so you have a pretty positive net. This is much more about the deterrent factor than it is about the collections and that is why it is profitable.

[quote author=xppman link=topic=677.msg17329#msg17329 date=1152468869][size=10pt]
Even feebay can't effectively ENFORCE the "Your Bidding Is A Binding Contract" BS.

So what is an collection agency going to do at this point? ...
I just can't imagine me trying to send some fickle winner to or through the hassle of a collections agency trying to collect a debt that's NOT "in reality" enforceable any way... and me paying them a fee to attempt to do so.

[/quote]
Personally, I think ebay could make the bids binding- get a CC on file first, do somethign to reduce credit risk. But, I think it is more that they don't want to. But, that's a whole different discussion... 

In terms of the collection agency role: ReliaBid took a while to bring to life because our lawyers and the agency's lawyers wanted to make sure that the winning bids were, in fact, things which could be collected upon. They are. I can't explain why, I'm not a lawyer, but at the end fo the process I got two things: an absurd legal bill and a firm answer that it is possible to collect. If there are still questions about this, I can try to get them answered if you send me an email or private message. 

Also important to note: there is no fee for collections usually. There was a quote later made to this being a scam or us coming back and saying we can't collect after taking money to do a collection. No collection fee = no scam here. With ReliaBid service, depending on the tier, users get either 3 free collections or unlimited collections. Equally important to note again is that because the chief (and proven) benefit is deterrence, you won't likely need to use the collections.

[quote author=xppman link=topic=677.msg17329#msg17329 date=1152468869]
But nooooooooooo ebay would lose money that way
and we all know how that works now don't we.  LOL
[/quote][size=10pt]
Amen to that!! 

[quote author=bargainbloodhound link=topic=677.msg17343#msg17343 date=1152477059]
For the vast majority of sellers (umm, maybe 99% of them) though this service would be a waste of money because I don't think buyers/NPB's would be deterred at the sight of a Reliabid seal in an auction listing. 
[/quote][size=10pt]
Over the past year our numbers have shown the seal to be effective. For many users that come to us with 4, 5, 6, even 10% rates of unpaid items, we are seeing reductions around 99%. Honestly, we had the same concern as you initially, would NPB's be deterred, would they put on the "mantle of responsibility?" And, as a result, when we initially marketed our service, we actually focused more on the collections. But, once we started getting the data in and saw the seal was effective, we have begun to focus more on the seal because NPB reduction as a proactive measure is really much better than collections.
My personal opinion about collections: nobody really wins usually. It can take time and the creditor is unhappy because he doesn't have his money, the debtor unhappy because he doesn't want to part with money. That is just too negative for me. But, if we can deter before it happens, then that is a win-win, right? That is what we do, and that is my service. 

I'd really like to here your thoughts on what I've said. If you can, please drop me a note, let me know what you think. Help us make this service better!

Thanks,

Jon Rosen
ReliaBid
Telephone: 1-888-735-4224, Ext. 86
E-mail: rosen[at]reliabid.com

[/font]

Glancing at the FAQ, there are a couple of things about the NPB process that might deter me from using the service:

Quote:40 days after the auction ends (or 30 days after you initiate a collection) a fourth letter is sent. At this point, the full balance is no longer due to you and instead the non-paying bidder is responsible for the restocking fee. You are also free to relist the item and sell it to another bidder at this time, while still collecting the restocking fee.

I'm primarily a web merchant, with Amazon #2 for sales, and so I'm used to immediate payment.  I already consider the 14-17 day wait with NPB's before relisting an item on eBay or Overstock to be a long time to have merchandise tied up.  40 days is definitely too long for me.

While the service may deter many NPBs, it is also going to tie up my merchandise for a longer period of time if there is an NPB,which will negate some of the benefit of the lower NPB rate.

Quote:How is the Restocking Fee determined?

The restocking fee is $10 + 20% of the winning bid price, and is capped at $300.

Which auctions are eligible for credit reporting if the collections process does not result in payment?

Outstanding debts for auctions are eligible for credit reporting if the restocking fee is greater than or equal to $50 in value

It doesn't seem like the service would be very effective for low priced items if there was an NPB situation.  If I sell a $9 CD to a buyer who doesn't pay, it doesn't seem like there would be any incentive for the NPB to pay for the item, or for him to pay a restocking fee of $11.80 if he visits your website and figures out that debt isn't eligible to be reported to a credit reporting bureau because it's under $50--in the meantime my item would be tied up for 40 days.

Quote:And while yes, there have and are lots of seal programs

BuySafe here, but only because it's a requirement for Overstock's Trusted Merchant program.