Wagglepop 2: Deja Vu as Auction Site That Left Sellers Stranded Reopens

[stardust]

I won't slam him on the stores board.  I certainly won't offer any constructive suggestions in any manner.  We'll just have to see how the site improves itself over time -- if it does.  I hope it works, for everyone's sake.  How that could happen, with a site that still doesn't even have the *basics* installed, and with no fraudulent knock-offs/scamming control and an i-don't-care attitude about it, I don't know.

I'll lurk.  I'll observe.  I'll listen.  I won't list there right now.  I'm not a mother...I don't *have* to forgive easily.

[vitalfinds]

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[stardust]

it's turned into a junk market and a huge spamfest.

Exactly.

I think you guys are being a bit rough.

You are correct.  I'll stifle self for a short while.  : -- til it gets real interesting...

[iron_chick]

So why doesn't Ray have a bulk lister? 

[bargainbloodhound]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=3775.msg14577#msg14577 date=1148163855]
Ray makes Lieworld look like free speech advocates.  There will be NO whining and complaining allowed on the WP boards.

I haven't checked the site out much.  Is that rule about not whining for real???  [/quote]

Based on the prohibition against "discouraging the community" in the new forum rules, and Ray's actions on the WP forum on the WP site last year, I would say the type of "whining and complaining" that takes place on the Stores board will not be tolerated on WP.

See this thread from the WP1

excerpt from that thread:

This is from a thread in the Wagglepop forum at the Wagglepop
auction site. Wagglepop1 is Ray, the owner of the site. What do you
think of blowedaway and Ray's behavior?

----------------------------------------------------
Post #1
blowedaway

Unregistered

I get The connection timed out
I get Document contains no data
I get Installation error - unspecified error

What the heck is going on ? ? ? ?

I thought WP was supposed to be on huge servers that could be its own
country
state of the art
ray's been planning for 3 years

What crap. It's getting very frustrating to to browse.

If this is still just "testing", why are people getting charged fees?

If it is not "testing", why didn't you get the site working before you
opened it up?

Just very aggravating trying to browse.

--------------------
wagglepop1 Today, 03:09 AM Post #3

Newbie

Group: Admin
Posts: 6
Joined: 8-February 05
Member No.: 3

blowed-

We are in a position of tuning and adjustment, and like the thousands
of other users we have, we'd love for you to be on board with
us....and patient through the rough times.

Additionally, I think you need to read the Board Rules & Code of
Conduct, as your post is in violation.

Regretably, action will have to be taken if any further violations
occur.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation, in advance.

Ray

--------------------

blowedaway Today, 03:15 AM Post #4

Unregistered

I have read the board rules. Exactly what is in violation? I really
don't see anything in the post that is in violation, except that I am
listing all the errors I received in 20 minutes of TRYING to browse.
Complaining is in violation? ...

--------------------

wagglepop1 Today, 04:00 AM Post #7

Newbie

Group: Admin
Posts: 6
Joined: 8-February 05
Member No.: 3


User 'blowed away' terminated from board membership due to violation
of Board Rules & Code of Conduct, and failure to comply with direct
request from Wagglepop.

Unfortunate, but necessary.

Ray

[bargainbloodhound]

I'm basically comparing him to anyone else with a small auction site,

See the definition of "no buyers" below for the one thing all small general auction sites including Wagglepop have in common (and the "sellers buying from other sellers to boost their confidence" like happens on Bidville..or in eBay groups like SRG..don't count as true buyers because there is a limit to how long that game can last before sellers realize they're not showing any real profits--for most small sites it only takes a few months for sellers to realize that "sellers buying from other sellers" is no substitute for "real" buying activity..and when that happens the brief burst of sales activity that occurs when every venue first opens dries up).

The difference between Ray and other small auction sites is that Ray is suckering sellers (who for the most part are inexperienced with the rest of the OAI outside of eBay) into paying fees that are significantly higher than established OAI sites with buyers like Overstock (we pay 1/10 of one cent to list), Yahoo (free), Amazon etc.

The WP sellers' money (insertion fees, store fees) would be better spent on either their own web sites or on established OAI sites with buyers that have the finances and infrastructure to support a large number of listings and users (Wagglepop doesn't).

50 stores right now...$500 per month from stores alone

BidWhale: closed. owner attempting unsuccessfully to sell domain name on SEDO
BluJay: monthly expenses ?, no profits, no buyers*

TheAuctionMan: (111 stores, 29 preferred stores 25 featured stores, 24,000 listings) monthly expenses ?, no profits, no buyers* (uses same RScript auction script as Wagglepop)

AuctionCities: monthly expenses $140,000, no profits, no buyers*
Bidville: monthly expenses $160,000, no profits, no buyers*

uBid: monthly expenses $6.5 million, profitable, buyers
Bidz: monthly expenses $7 million, profitable, buyers

*no buyers definition: the average seller on the site receives less than 10-15 yearly sales.

Even to achieve the level of buyerless unSUCCESS of Bidville, Ray is going to need several hundred times more stores than he has now in order to pay the bills.

none of these other auction sites seem to attract the large numbers of established sellers that wp1 and wp2 are attracting

Established sellers on Overstock Auctions: Jennifer Lopez (frequent charity auctions), Ritz Camera, a couple dozen PeSA members,  and

    * CompUSA
    * eforcity PeSA
    * Gem Affair PeSA
    * Guthy-Renker
    * homeclick
    * mjr sales
    * Neimans
    * Shoplift
    * Superior Galleries
    * The Sharper Image
    * ...and several other very established sellers

Plus manufacturers Bose, Creative Labs, and Olympus Camera also sell on Overstock Auctions

Comparing the lists of established sellers on Wagglepop and Overstock, where do you think the average online buyer (i.e. someone who is not a seller) would choose to shop? ...and then compare WP to the sellers on Amazon, etc, etc and ask the same question...

[vitalfinds]

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[bargainbloodhound]

Ruby Lane.  What if he has that type of success?  Is that success enough?  Some people (me included) sometimes like to shop on smaller sites (although preferrably themed sites).

He's running a general auction site so there really isn't any comparison between a general site like WP and a specialized site like Ruby Lane or any chance for that type of success...if he had taken the advice I gave him before he announced WP1 to forget the general auction idea and open a specialized site--i.e. sports related auction, he might have had a chance at that type of success (but his temper and his out-ebaying-ebay by placing restrictive policies on sellers likely would have been his undoing in that endeavor too).

500 stores aren't going to give him the mass-i.e. revenues needed to effectively advertise to bring in buyers (Bidville has 500 stores, 1 million listings, has spent upwards of $15 million over the past few years, and yet outside of sellers the site still has no name recognition with buyers--ditto for iOffer which has 1000s of stores, BidBay/AuctionCities which has also spend over $15 million, LiveDeal which has 2 million listings and has received over $10 million in funding, etc., etc.). Ray needs (tens of) millions to advertise and build an infrastructure if he wants to succeed in the general auction field and attract buyers.

The one thing he can do with 500 stores is earn HIMSELF a nice monthly income (which in all likelihood is his only reason for doing this), but the sellers who pay him monthly fees are unlikely to see much in the way of income from WP.  Bidville and Bidbay/AuctionCities owners have earned themselves very nice incomes over the years too by USING sellers like Ray is doing...the sellers haven't made crap.

[stardust]

No matter what, it takes a while to build a site.  Granted.  It's taken Overstock time to build their site, also, and woo big-time customers.  jBut, then, I don't think O really wants small-time sellers.  Lots of investor money and prolly venture capital money.  I dare say they did not use a simple 'out of the box' program with limits.  Also, I do remember BluJay mentioning that they built their site from scratch, with *exponential* (sic) expansion capability from the gitgo. 

It's apparent that once again Ray is starting out small and on the fly, as the site is ridiculously bare-bones.  It seems to me that to be successful he would have been working on this FOR THE ENTIRE LAST YEAR and not just come up with another quick out-of-the-box program that will prolly crash if there is a sudden interest and surge in listing/viewing/buying.  My instinct is that if the man were truly intelligent and living in reality, and if he actually truly believed in this personal goal/dream, he could have put a team together who would have worked for *nothing* -- and who would have 'shared in the profit' if it proved successful.  And for a 'beta' upstart, like he's doing now, it would not have required much upfront money for servers and whatnot.  Public interest and free media interest will bring in investors if it looks good.  ALL of Ray's amazing publicity was 100% free last year -- and more was scheduled to come -- and that most likely will not repeat itself this year ... unless it becomes a sideshow.

The whole concept just infuriates me again.  Even more, maybe, than last time.  He's apparently  actually dumber than *I* am in street smartz (which is about as low on the totem pole as you can get) and will most likely blow a second chance. 
>
I'll shut up now.

[vitalfinds]

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