Wagglepop 2: Deja Vu as Auction Site That Left Sellers Stranded Reopens

[chiquita]

Every post I made to the WP boards is still there in it's entirety except one, and that one was removed because I asked it to be removed when I stepped over the line.

This is the point Scott, there is no way to even begin to gauge the number of posts that have been deleted, and not voluntarily so. The atmosphere is hostile and repressive whenever anyone dares to question or challenge Ray. This is the same behavior that was apparent from the pre-launch and launch of WP1.  I was not around for WP1, I had never heard of Ray or WP until reading the ebay boards. I never opened a store nor did I post on the WP boards. I did however make friends with a young couple who had a store on WP. They were openly flamed on the WP boards for asking questions that needed answers. It wasn't just one member who attacked them, it was a gang attack.

As far as Kirk is concerned yes he is a professional, and no I didn't ask him about his conversations with you as I had no knowledge that any took place. He can freely post here anytime he likes and disclose whatever he deems appropriate.

I am not predisposed to "hate" WP. I like you have free will to conduct my business where I deem appropriate. My decision was not based on emotions, or my disgust with Ebay. Decisions made in anger are never in ones best interest. I looked at the site, gave it a test drive, and did my research on the history of the site and its owner.

The site offers nothing that many other venues that are free offer.

The most important fact if you will that finalized my decision was not wanting to invest my time, money,  and energy with a site run by a man with a history of "histrionics" and no ethical compass.

[BellisimaJ.]

The most important fact if you will that finalized my decision was not wanting to invest my time, money,  and energy with a site run by a man with a history of "histrionics" and no ethical compass.

And there is the heart of the matter. The fact is, some of us are just not willing to do business with an individual or company that is known to be unethical.

I personally despise Ray/Wp for taking advantage of people who clearly are misguided and in need of some sound business counseling. The fact that he is taking their money is more than enough for me to feel as I do.
The fact that you are clearly either his henchman or his aspkissing customer also tells me all I need to know about you.

[thentavius]

Thentavious, I had never heard of RR or WP prior to signing up at WP2.

Fair enough.

Now you understand why we have this lengthy thread in the first place. To give people both sides of the story, if they're interested.

There's also a good thread over at OTWA that details the original WP saga, including permanently recorded psycho responses from Ray, as well as some preserved comments from the original FAS boards.

The OTWA thread, which watched the saga unfold: http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=22635

[thentavius]

All I want are for the facts to be looked at, but now, that's impossible, because you can't prove a negative if you all believe the boards at WP have been sanitized.

Who cares about the boards? I don't care about the boards. I don't even use the boards on major sites I do business with. I use this board because it's ABOUT business.

Boards are not the cornerstone of a business. Or, at least, they shouldn't be.

What I care about are sales, integrity, reliability, potential growth, viability, professionalism--and whether or not the business founder is a scumbag, cheat, liar, and crook (and whether or not those personality disorders endanger my finances, business, or sales).

[stardust]

[quote author=BellisimaJ. link=topic=3775.msg31289#msg31289 date=1162942156]

The most important fact if you will that finalized my decision was not wanting to invest my time, money,  and energy with a site run by a man with a history of "histrionics" and no ethical compass.

And there is the heart of the matter. The fact is, some of us are just not willing to do business with an individual or company that is known to be unethical.

I personally despise Ray/Wp for taking advantage of people who clearly are misguided and in need of some sound business counseling. The fact that he is taking their money is more than enough for me to feel as I do.
The fact that you are clearly either his henchman or his aspkissing customer also tells me all I need to know about you.
[/quote]

100% ditto !!

[bargainbloodhound]

[quote author=sneakymagenta link=topic=3775.msg31258#msg31258 date=1162933626]

WHY IS TulipTools ALLOWED TO USE A Sock Puppet AND NO ONE ELSE CAN?

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW! 
[/quote]

[Sweet Girl 70]

I can't believe I actually went through the boards on WP and found some of the old posts that Scott brought up, some are missing but I pulled what I could actually find, phew!!! 

Aslking posted:24 Aug 2006 12:55     


Thanks for stepping up. I have posted similar observations to yours on other posts, and I've gotten shot down just like you have. It's like we're all supposed to hold hands, think good thoughts, and sing Kumbaya and everything will be all right -- someday. The divine light will shine down upon us and lift us up into auction heaven. I've been told to shut up, go away and mind my own business.
I see sellers like myself working their tails off to stock shelves and promote the site. But what is WP doing to promote its sellers and attract buyers? From what I gather, it is relying on two sources of business: old eBay sellers dragging over their customers and sellers themselves buying from each other, like one big happy family? I think I speak for most career e-tailers when I say that despite the valued business of repeat customers, repeat customers don't pay the bills.
Everybody talks about the great growth rate, but what does that really prove when you start from nothing? The mantra here is, "build it and they will come." Get real. Supply in and of itself does not drive demand -- VALUE DOES. We're not the only show in town. A buyer can get anything and everything on the net. I hear that WP is not trying to compete with eBay and the rest. This is absurd. Of couse, we're trying to compete. We have to compete, or die on the vine. In fact, as a new venue, WE HAVE TO BE EVEN MORE COMPETITIVE to attract buyers -- not lookers -- buyers -- NEW BUYERS. We have to overcome the stigma of WP's first failed attempt. We have to offer something to buyers they can't get anywhere else.
I suggested offering Red Carpet special introductory discounts to all new buyers for a limited time. I was shut down for that. When I suggested we price our items BELOW the identical item selling on eBay, I was shot down for that. Having shelves dripping with items won't amount to a hill of beans if the items are priced above the competition. Buyers couldn't care less about eBay fees, the trials and tribulations of an on-line seller, or WP's grand vision. THEY WANT A GOOD DEAL! They want it cheap and they want it fast. WP can't be as good as the big guys -- IT HAS TO BE BETTER. Think about it. What really sets us apart? We'll never have the inventory eBay does, so why would buyers want to shop here? WP needs to come up with incentives, promotions, gimmicks, etc. that capitalize on value, service and whatever other features that make it unique (I'm not even sure myself what it is that makes us different). This has to be done quickly because sellers who need to make a living can't afford to be patient forever. We'll go where the action is. Excuse me for telling it like it is.

In response to another post later on

06 Sep 2006 20:36     


What Turtlegaby has expressed are concerns I brought up nearly two months ago, but was beat over the head and into the ground by a bunch of pompoms from WP cheerleaders. I predicted that store owners would be closing unless the site gets more buyer friendly and active steps are taken to solicit buyers OUTSIDE OF WP'S INNER CIRCLE OF "BREAKFAST CLUB" SELLERS, because $9.99 plus FVF is not cheap if nothing's selling -- this is not fuzzy math -- this is BASIC MATH. I made several suggestions on how to attract buyers to no avail. I was told Karen & co. have some divine plan and we all have to sit back, be patient and wait for it to be revealed -- whatever it is and whenever it takes shape -- as her wisdom and guidance dictates. We lowly sellers just have to "keep the faith" like subserviant puppies and not express our concerns. I'm not being negative -- just REAL. If I were a buyer, I would have no incentive to purchase an identical item for the same price off of WP, as opposed to E. None whatsoever. Fact is, I'd be more inclined to buy off of E due to being already registered there, familiar with the system, its buyer safety features and being able to deal with long-established sellers I know with great FB and impressive transaction records. Plus, given WP's questionable history, I'd be a bit nervous about dealing on the site at all. I don't know how Karen & co.'s grand plan intends to overcome these obstacles, but it better come up with something before the sellers who really could contribute a lot of inventory, energy and revenue to this site decide to pack up their marbles and go home.

[Sweet Girl 70]

This is part of the back and forth between Aslkling and Scott, there are missing pieces to this conversation, but as we all know a lot of posts have been pulled from the boards.  I changed Aslking's user name on WP to the user name here which I believe I spelled incorrectly, sorry about that!!!

Aslkling 24 Aug 2006 18:12     

All I know is that I'm really getting tired of seeing "Wagglepop Listing Expiration Notices" plugging up my inbox and no sales notices. It makes me think I'm working my butt off for nothing, with little to know assurance the site isn't going to crash at any time like it did the last time.
Again, Wagglepop needs buyers. 80,000 listings is more than enough if there're good deals to be had and people know about you. I go to Craig's list all the time, and there's nothing even close to 80,000 listings on the Atlanta site. Wagglepop's a cute name, but it says nothing about what we do. It could be a frozen confection manufacturer for all most buyers know. The home page is NOT buyer friendly. All my buyers have said so. They can't find anything and they don't even want to go there because all they see is WP begging for sellers to sign up for the monthly listing package. Half the time I can't even find my own listings, since I inventory everything by listing number. Because of this I don't even want to stock my shelves with hundreds of items because it would take forever for me to find a particular listing if I need to revise it. I shouldn't have to email and BEG to receive an account credit WITHOUT the buyer getting an unpaid item strike if we both agree not to complete the transaction (I still have not received the credit, by the way). WP has some real issues, and if we don't voice them, the powers that be will just go along thinking life is grand, everybody's happy, nothing gets resolved and the site goes into the auction graveyard.


scottbulger  24 Aug 2006 18:20     

The "powers that be" know what is going on.

Sorry you haven't had any sales.

I do know of another store selling clothing, (mostly kids) that have had 3 sales in the last 36 hours. It's not a lot, but it's a beginning.

90 days is hardly enough time to start putting the nails in the coffin.

And the credit you are looking for...how does WP know that you aren't going to complete the transaction anyway and jsut try to avoid your FVF? I'm not saying that you are, but how do they know that?

Kumbaya...

scottbulger  24 Aug 2006 18:28     



Designer...

Forget what I said about 90 days...I just realized your store has only been open 30 days. And you do have a sale. Happy to see that.

Kumbaya...

Aslkling  24 Aug 2006 18:31      

Oh, please, Scott. Do you really think I would bother to compose and send an email for a 25 cent credit if my intentions were to cheat WP out of it? I was running a test: selling the identical item on two sites to see which got the most action and where it would sell first. It sold on the other site first but I was unable to cancel the WP listing right away because a storm knocked our power out. Meanwhile, the item sold -- to an old eBay customer I'd sent to WP. I explained it all to her and she was very understanding and I was motified to think this long-time Canadian buyer might get an unpaid item strike if I applied for credit on the sale. I still have no assurance that this valued repeat buyer is not going to get an unpaid item strike. It's stuff like this that needs to be fixed.

scottbulger  24 Aug 2006 18:37     

If its only a quarter, forget about it. It was your mistake. No unpaid item strike, no indigestion over the FVF refund, it's all over with.

As a matter of fact, just leave each other feedback like the transaction was completed. Or did you do that already?

Kumbaya...

scottbulger  24 Aug 2006 18:41      

...and the more I read your story, the more I think ....hooey...the instant you found out it sold somewhere else the power went out and before the power came back on it sold on WP too! It's a Christmas miracle!

Sounds like the Island of Dr. Moreau....all kinds of unethical "tests" going on.

Kumbaya...

Aslkling  24 Aug 2006 19:14     

What's unethical about running a test sale? This is common market strategy. The item was for sale and I chose to market it in more than one venue to see where that particular item would get the most hits. This is common business practice. As it turned out, it sold on another site. Before I had a chance to cancel the WP listing, a storm knocked the power out (something that happens often in Atlanta). Meanwhile, the item sold to one of my long-time buyers in Canada. Who would have known that a pair of Anne Klein sandals would have been such a hot item. I immediately emailed customer service. I would have to wait 8 days to apply for FVF credit. I waited and applied. Regardless of the situation, there is no reason why any buyer should have to get an unpaid item strike if buyer and seller mutually and congenially decide not to complete the transaction. NONE WHATSOEVER! The situation could have just as well been that upon packing the item I notice a hidden defect rendering the item unsellable. Both I and the buyer decide not to complete the transaction. The buyer should get an unpaid item strike? Come-on. If you question my intentions and business acumen, just check my 3800+ positive FBs, 99.9+ satisfaction rating since 1998 at the "other" site.

Ok, maybe someday when I want to drive myself totally insane I will go back through the boards and find the conversation about what Askling was selling and Scott's response. I have a feeling that it has been pulled from the boards. :blinkie:

[cranky_hippie]

Ok, maybe someday when I want to drive myself totally insane I will go back through the boards and find the conversation about what Askling was selling and Scott's response. I have a feeling that it has been pulled from the boards.

If it wasn't gone before, no doubt it is now. 

[Alskling]

This post is for S.B., and since I have been banned from posting on WP, it's being posted here, since I know you, S.B. are lurking.
I am not a boardie. I was never a boardie. I didn't have time for that. Even as a veteran seller on eBay, I very rarely posted, and only posted when I had a specific issue and needed feedback and counsel. I was posting on eBay in regards to a buyer in Turkey, who I discovered, after doing intensive investigation over a couple months, was probably scamming sellers in Europe, US and China, when I by happenstance ran across a thread on WP. After reading all the positive press, I decided to join and open a store there. I was simply enraged by eBay's fee hikes and thought I'd give WP a chance. I came to WP with an open mind and no misconceptions. I;d never heard of Ray or WP1. It was a business decision. But where was the business? No hits on my items and no sales. I asked questions and received no answers. I was made to feel like a fool and traitor for bringing up issues that affected my business and belittled for having little faith. I Goggled WP and discovered the unsavory history. Despite that, I was willing to give WP a chance to deliver and explain what happened in WP1 and give me some clue as to what was going to be different with WP2. Still no answers and things were not improving. You, and others, were hostile and insulting. After doing more research I discovered more unsavory facts regarding Ray and the history -- direct quotes and links to posts Ray had left on eBay boards that were truly appalling and incongruous with the image and philosophy he professed on WP. I asked more questions and my posts were deleted. More and more the site fit the image of a cult. I thought I was alone in this believe until another fellow WP seller admitted she felt the same way. Still another former seller sent me a PM with the link to TT and a few other sites for information. I wasn't even aware of the existence of these sites until then. As I read the posts, the pieces of the puzzle started to fit. It is a cult -- pure and simple.

You are clearly defending a man who has a history of being an abrasive, abusive, con artist, hypocrite and liar. My only experience was with eBay, as a veteran seller with a record of honesty and integrity. Many posters here have had past noxious experiences with WP1 and Ray's history with eBay which is highly questionable at best. My own investigation since has confirmed this as has my own experience. I have nothing to hide and I am most willing to share my observations, investigative analysis and perceptions in an effort to help others avoid the pitfalls. WP stole 3 months of my business -- 3 precious months, and I'm not going to easily forgive or forget.