Poll: Who is to blame for sellers leaving Wagglepop en masse?

let the truth be told · 01-20-2007, 09:31 PM,

WP store count = 416

The rosebud has wilted away from posting on PSU. Good luck to you bud and don't be afraid to speak your mind on PSU or any forum including this TT forum.

let the truth be told
u1it4less - "it's all in the name.."
X-POP NATION, A real seller's network

chiquita · 01-20-2007, 10:11 PM,

Good afternoon all. I just caught up reading both here and PSU. I was the only one online last night when scoop posted. What really stood out for me is the fact that the sellers who really do have legitimate concerns felt the need to post in a private forum those concerns. They obviously felt they couldn't post on the forum at WP. Then to find a private group discussion where they felt safe to express themselves, they were "outed" on the WP forum (public). No wonder scoop and the others are so upset with Brian.

That said I want to say that rosebud's last post in my opinion came from the heart. I know that some folks have criticized her for using a sock puppet ID, etc... which may be due to the fact that she felt we were a threat to her and would somehow attack her business. Look at all the people on ebay forums who use posting id's in order to avoid business interference. Now I don't believe for a minute anyone here would ever do that to bud or anyone else. She obviously did believe it, so Bud if you are reading this just know that no one here wishes you or any other WP seller ill will or harm.

She took the higher ground and apologized if she offended anyone. She is standing up for her friends. When people perceive they are being attacked they will be defensive. They came to each others aid.
We here at TT also stand up for each other too, both here and anywhere else. That's what friends do.

I don't blindy agree or believe everything I am told either. You have to use discretion, because it is so easy to want to belong to a group that you silence your voice and opinion. That is where the perception of the "collective" or cultish behavior references come from. In other words without obvious distinction or voices of dissent being heard on the WP forum, it appears as if you are all the same, and this shuts people up who do have a different opinion, but will not share it. It is a clique, you either agree with us and we like you, or you will be treated as an outcast.

I know that the sellers have asked for a nice polite courteous forum on WP, but what you have is a sterilized forum where the only distinction that can be made about the sellers is by your siggie. Without debate and open discussion you are never challenged to have an independent thought, opinion, or idea. The greatest contribution to any group is to always have a devil's advocate voice because they provide the voice that challenges us to really ask the tough questions. Without that all you have is a room full of people all nodding there heads in unison.

IllnConfused · 01-20-2007, 10:25 PM,

I absolutely agree chiquita.

Open, honest and sensible discussion is a must IMO. And that is not going to happen on wp OR wpssu.

Ill

RiverRat · 01-20-2007, 10:28 PM,

[quote author=chiquita link=topic=3775.msg40806#msg40806 date=1169331081]
Good afternoon all. I just caught up reading both here and PSU. I was the only one online last night when scoop posted. What really stood out for me is the fact that the sellers who really do have legitimate concerns felt the need to post in a private forum those concerns. They obviously felt they couldn't post on the forum at WP. Then to find a private group discussion where they felt safe to express themselves, they were "outed" on the WP forum (public). No wonder scoop and the others are so upset with Brian.

That said I want to say that rosebud's last post in my opinion came from the heart. I know that some folks have criticized her for using a sock puppet ID, etc... which may be due to the fact that she felt we were a threat to her and would somehow attack her business. Look at all the people on ebay forums who use posting id's in order to avoid business interference. Now I don't believe for a minute anyone here would ever do that to bud or anyone else. She obviously did believe it, so Bud if you are reading this just know that no one here wishes you or any other WP seller ill will or harm.

She took the higher ground and apologized if she offended anyone. She is standing up for her friends. When people perceive they are being attacked they will be defensive. They came to each others aid.
We here at TT also stand up for each other too, both here and anywhere else. That's what friends do.

I don't blindy agree or believe everything I am told either. You have to use discretion, because it is so easy to want to belong to a group that you silence your voice and opinion. That is where the perception of the "collective" or cultish behavior references come from. In other words without obvious distinction or voices of dissent being heard on the WP forum, it appears as if you are all the same, and this shuts people up who do have a different opinion, but will not share it. It is a clique, you either agree with us and we like you, or you will be treated as an outcast.

I know that the sellers have asked for a nice polite courteous forum on WP, but what you have is a sterilized forum where the only distinction that can be made about the sellers is by your siggie. Without debate and open discussion you are never challenged to have an independent thought, opinion, or idea. The greatest contribution to any group is to always have a devil's advocate voice because they provide the voice that challenges us to really ask the tough questions. Without that all you have is a room full of people all nodding there heads in unison.

[/quote]

VERY well said Chiquita!!! Notworthy

RiverRat · 01-20-2007, 10:39 PM,

[quote author=Sweet Girl 70 link=topic=3775.msg40802#msg40802 date=1169322601]
:blinkie: Geesh! I was gone for a week and excitement has come back to TT! YOHB quit filing Rat's teeth! How is she supposed to eat???
[/quote]

I wondered why marshmallows had seemed so hard lately!! :blinkie:

[quote author=youroverheadbin link=topic=3775.msg40787#msg40787 date=1169314665]

PS: Rat - just kidding!! Sunny

[/quote]

I knew you would never do anything like that!! Angel12

Alskling · 01-20-2007, 10:48 PM,

Chiquita -- You said it better than I.

You covered what I had in mind when I refered to the WP community as a "collective borg." There are sellers I'm sure with independent thoughts and original ideas, but you'd never know it from reading the WP forums. This not only makes WP appear cliquish and cultish, but it will contribute to WP's demise, because it creates a stagnant environment in a dynamic (sorry to use that word, but it fits here) industry. It FORCES members to go elsewhere, where their ideas, opinions and criticisms can be aired and discussed with the goal of improving sellers' businesses.

If there's this kind of civil war occuring at such an early age in WP's development, when some sellers are still starry-eyed and infatuated, imagine how things are going to play out down the road. I can assure you, it won't get better.

chiquita · 01-20-2007, 10:51 PM,

Quote:The eBay marketplace dynamic is a completely different one, with an entirely different business structure.-because ebay is actually a business, which Ray has tried in vain to copy

The advantages of being established and generating extremely high revenues from participation for eBay as a company create a kind of "list and wait" dynamic, while ours is more one of smart marketing and patient strategy.ebay has money so they advertise, market, and actually do something to bring in buyers. Our sellers however bear the entire burden of marketing their items and do all the work. WP will remain unknown to the buyer community because we won't use any of our money to advertise.

It will take time before we build traffic from casual online buyers under our structure, so be sure to use everything at your disposal to market yourself and your items and products.We won't bring you any buyers because they are all shopping at ebay, amazon, and everywhere else, so if you want any sales you better bust your butt. It's not our fault if you fail.

As your customer base builds, so will your sales Duh, but we don't want you to know that if you have a customer base you can sell online somewhere else and be even more successful than here. We want your 9.95 a month, because well you see the sellers are our customers.

Karen - WP Customer Care

bolding is mine. Toothy9

chiquita · 01-20-2007, 11:17 PM,

Quote:Conversely, we have learned a tremendous amount about how buyers shop online, where they go, and what they value in the shopping experience overall.

The funniest thing about Karen's posts are how vague they all are. Look at the above, exactly what did you learn Ray about buyers who shop online, what source are you basing the findings on.

OK OK I know Ray could care less about buyers. He already has his buyers (sellers) and has designed WP to aquire sellers.
This site is set up to be completely buyer unfriendly starting with the home page, a search feature that brings up listings that have nothing to do with the search words, the inability to pay immediately, having to wait for a seller to email an invoice, which in my case always ended up picked off by my spam filter. Leaving feedback is also complicated. If someone like me who has shopped online for 10 years, and having also been a seller can't use the site easily, imagine what happens to "casual" buyers attempting to buy here. There are other small auction sites as well that are not user friendly too.

Why pay Ray to list on a site that is doing absolutely nothing to attract buyers? Since the burden falls entirely on the seller than you might as well list on a free site with a froogle feed. WP is operating like a hosting company, not an auction venue.
If you have gotten sales on WP take that as a positive sign that you are selling items in demand and feel confident that you can conduct business elsewhere on a site without paying upfront costs, or seriously consider having your own website.
Take your books to amazon,alibris,biblio. Take your handmade crafts to etsy, set up your miscellaneous items on ecrater. Use ebay as a customer aquisition tool, and redirect your traffic to your website. Instead of spreading your items on a dozen small auction venues w/ minimal traffic rethink your strategy.
Tool

FineThings4U · 01-20-2007, 11:27 PM,

You got my karma vote for the day chiquita.

Very thoughtful and well-phrased post. I only wish I was so eloquent.

Icon_thumleft

RiverRat · 01-20-2007, 11:34 PM,

[quote author=chiquita link=topic=3775.msg40815#msg40815 date=1169335051]
Use ebay as a customer aquisition tool, and redirect your traffic to your website.
Tool

[/quote]

BUT please do not do this by spamming the eBay message boards and/or putting illegal links in your auctions, feedback or on your About Me page.

Do it by including a business card or flyer with each package you ship or go to Vista Print and get some of their postcards to mail out. Treat your eBay customers with respect just as you would if you wanted them to come back to your eBay store. You want them as a return customer regardless of where they return to.

Great post Chiquita!! You're on a roll today!! Icon_biggrin