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misteroriginal · 09-13-2005, 03:58 AM,

We haven't worked under contract yet on any of the creative services we offer, and it's not because we don't think we should. The problem is defining beauty, which, as people have been saying for years, is in the eye of the beholder.

For example, this year we wrote three songs for a company. The first one paid $x.They paid twice as much for the second song, approximately the same length, then cut back to the original amount for the third song for no reason given other than they had a tighter budget.

I'd LOVE to hear some ideas on how to write a decent contract without hiring a lawyer. It doesn't have to be strictly a music contract. It could be a contract for any service that is mostly creative.

**kim** · 09-13-2005, 11:01 AM,

In the early days our lawyers, managers, label, and a million others with their sticky fingers in the pie handled that. Did a very good job of making sure they got their share. :blinkie: Only took us a couple decades to give most of 'em the boot. Kept the lawyer and relied less on the other wankers.

Get a music lawyer. They are essential. You'll be sorry if you don't. Music is a filthy industry.

Or you could go fart arseing about, be a muppet, skip the lawyer, buy a music contracts form package, and end up stuffed. Here is a few:

http://www.indieartistsalliance.com/contracts.html
http://www.musiclegalforms.com/
http://www.musiccontracts.com/
http://www.industrycontracts.com/

***mandy*** · 09-13-2005, 01:16 PM,

Ignore Miss Bad Karma Sellout. :twistedevil: Hi Kim! Thefinger

Scroll down past the Lawyer on Disk advert, there are some free sample music contract forms below it:

http://www.gremlinuk.com/gremlin/newgrem...papers.htm

misteroriginal · 09-13-2005, 06:45 PM,

I'll check out the links, but I was hoping for a more generic discusssion. Let's say I want Mandy to paint a protrait of my mum. Or I want Kim to make a dress for me to wear to the Academy awards that doesn't make me look too feminine. Or I need a company logo from somebody.

Is a contract necessary and are there common threads in the creative-service contracts. Is there a simple contract that makes a good start?

bargainbloodhound · 09-13-2005, 07:32 PM,

Quote:Is a contract necessary

Unless the person you're doing business with is a family member or close friend, a contract is always a good idea so the terms of the work/payment are clearly defined beforehand (and to prevent things like "[they].cut back to the original amount for the third song for no reason given other than they had a tighter budget") ..and to protect your ass.

If you don't want to hire a lawyer the best thing to do is probably to look at sample contracts, books on contracts in the creative field you're working in, etc. The standard things that go into a contract will probably be slightly different for each different creative area (i.e. fashion design, artists (commissioning a painting) and so you you really need to become familiar with contracts for each specific creative field.

Kim's advice for anything involved with the music industry is also good: "get a lawyer" ...and she speaks from over 25 years of experience in the business...even if there are large stretches of the 1980's that are probably a blur to her :twistedevil: . If you're going to be writing songs and selling them to (Businesses?) you should consider joining something like ASCAP or BMI.

misteroriginal · 09-14-2005, 12:48 PM,

So would we want to talk to an entertainment attorney?

My sister-in-law suggested we get an agent to handle the negotiations so we can focus on making the products. According to her, it's the producer/business person's job to skin us alive. Without an agent, we are like babies with candy.

But I thought an agent was for the major-league. Am I wrong AGAIN???

xppman · 09-14-2005, 08:10 PM,

Do like all lawyers do. Get a retainer fee up front for the services you are going to deliver.
A simple contract is a good idea too. If you charge 50.00 for a logo get 75.00 and return 25.00 to the customer if they go for one of the three logos you present. If they want more logos presented from you now (than the origianl three), they are eating into the refund retainer portion of 25.00.