Wagglepop 2: Deja Vu as Auction Site That Left Sellers Stranded Reopens

[bargainbloodhound]

It takes more than a *build it and they will come* attitude to build a business.

Bidville (1.5 million listings at peak) built it several years ago and they (the buyers) never came.  The reason: management made no effort to advertise to BUYERS.  Yahoo Auctions (2 million listings at peak), Carnaby (1 million plus listings at peak), and BidBay (aka Bidway/AuctionDiner/AuctionCities ,5 million listings at its peak) all "built it" and the buyers didn't come because the site owners didn't promote their sites heavily enough.

If the site owner doesn't advertise to buyers then "building it" won't bring in buyers.  There is a reason why in the first quarter of this year Overstock Auctions (20,000 listings) sellers sold $4.4 million while Wagglepop (100,000 listings) sellers sold under $200,000...its called advertising to buyers.  Overstock advertises their main store to buyers (and buyers trickle through to the auction side) while WP doesn't advertise to buyers.

[flying high]

[quote author=I want 1 2 link=topic=3775.msg53633#msg53633 date=1179374388]
[quote author=BeenThereDoneThat link=topic=3775.msg53632#msg53632 date=1179374004]
YOU go *the* Pet Guy.  Looks like Ray might have met his match.

Any lawyers in the building? 
[/quote]

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night ! 
[/quote]

You will do.

[Karma]

Now that I am done for the night I can  :popcorneaters:

I come here, not only for the miscreant stand up comic humor, but really for the variety of emoticons. 

[yowlsnhowls]

[quote author=BeenThereDoneThat link=topic=3775.msg53631#msg53631 date=1179373667]

Here is what I have learned about the Alexa traffic rank recently:

::: snip :::

The majority of stores that closed this year were either for non-payment, or the sellers may have listed a dozen items expecting immediate sales. Most obviously didn't read these boards, and see that was not the way to make sales on WP. If anyone is looking to increase the traffic here... List EVERYTHING, buy or make more items with the income from your sales to keep new, fresh items for sale, and the traffic and sales will grow. Before long, a solid customer base comes along that will constantly visit your store looking for what you will have next. Add in the occasional new satisfied buyer that comes back for more, and that is how you build a business. There are over 24,000 unique monthly visitors at WP. Out of 24,000 people, there is going to be someone looking for what you have... All that needs to be done is to list it.

As far as what I have learned about Alexa though, until you have several million hits a day, it is very difficult to just use the Alexa rank.
I prefer to use Quantcast, compared to Alexa, for full stats.
http://www.quantcast.com/wagglepop.com
This gives a much more detailed explanation of different keywords, possible places visitors enter the site from, etc.

Bolding is mine

This is still piffing me off because this person KNOWS better!  WTF? They know why the majority of sellers left.  What the hell?  Has this person stooped so low from drinking all of the kool aid and is now pandering to KayRay?  What is the point and why the 180 from a few short months ago?

Non Payment my arse 
Obviously didn't read the boards, my arse 
Listing only a dozen or so items???? 

DUDE!  Anybody who knows anything about stats knows that you can make stats look any way you want them to look.  Don't like the Alexa stats so pick another site?  Strange, indeed, as KaRay was liking the Alexa stats a while ago.

And, ohhhhhhh  puuuuuuuulease, don't give the majority of  paying on time, many listings. past WP'ers lessons on how to build a business.  Most of us here know how to build a business and part of that business plan does not now include WP, for obvious reasons. Trust me when I say.. It takes more than a *build it and they will come* attitude to build a business.

24,000 unique monthly visitors at WP

 
[/quote]

Sherrand brought up this seller earlier today. I'm still kinda in a blue funk over this post of his and have been pretty much at a loss of words.

I purchased quite a number of items from him at WP and we, I thought, had built quite a strong online relationship. I'd let him know when I bought my store domain and closed down my WP store. In fact, he was the FIRST to know, he knew exactly why I left, and why I had to postpone my departure from WP. I had planned to get out by Thanksgiving, but it wasn't until the first week of March due to two family members with major illnesses, two chronically ill sanctuary cats, and things going bonkers at work.

The last email I had from him was mid-last month, just before my husband was hospitalized with pneumonia that developed into plueral effusion. He told me then that he had a few more screenshots of his WP feedback to make and was going to start delisting. Though I haven't emailed him since I brought Craig home for a full week's worth of bedrest and we began all this home renovating, I just can't wrap my mind around his drastic change of heart toward Waggleopia.

[bargainbloodhound]

WP and their dynamic organic method

WP's "dynamic organic method" of SEO is very lacking because like the rest of the site it is stuck in 2002-2003.  KaRay makes no effort at all to use any of the newer Web 2.0 methods of improving your organic search results and making your site more visible like blogs (where is the WP blog?), RSS feeds, etc., etc. 

It wouldn't cost Ray any money to setup a WP blog (blog software is free, and since he's using the buggy free phpBB script for his forums he obviously doesn't have a problem using free software).  It would take him less than a day to setup a blog and integrate it into the rest of the site (i.e. add links to it on a few menus).

It wouldn't cost WP any money to issue occasional free press releases which he has never done.  Press releases can also help organic search results.

There are so many free methods of site promotion (that don't involve spamming) that Ray could have used to promote WP and NEVER has used because he prefers to let sellers do all the promotion.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

[quote author=meowsnbarks link=topic=3775.msg53638#msg53638 date=1179374995]
[quote author=BeenThereDoneThat link=topic=3775.msg53631#msg53631 date=1179373667]

Here is what I have learned about the Alexa traffic rank recently:

::: snip :::

The majority of stores that closed this year were either for non-payment, or the sellers may have listed a dozen items expecting immediate sales. Most obviously didn't read these boards, and see that was not the way to make sales on WP. If anyone is looking to increase the traffic here... List EVERYTHING, buy or make more items with the income from your sales to keep new, fresh items for sale, and the traffic and sales will grow. Before long, a solid customer base comes along that will constantly visit your store looking for what you will have next. Add in the occasional new satisfied buyer that comes back for more, and that is how you build a business. There are over 24,000 unique monthly visitors at WP. Out of 24,000 people, there is going to be someone looking for what you have... All that needs to be done is to list it.

As far as what I have learned about Alexa though, until you have several million hits a day, it is very difficult to just use the Alexa rank.
I prefer to use Quantcast, compared to Alexa, for full stats.
http://www.quantcast.com/wagglepop.com
This gives a much more detailed explanation of different keywords, possible places visitors enter the site from, etc.

Bolding is mine

This is still piffing me off because this person KNOWS better!  WTF? They know why the majority of sellers left.  What the hell?  Has this person stooped so low from drinking all of the kool aid and is now pandering to KayRay?  What is the point and why the 180 from a few short months ago?

Non Payment my arse 
Obviously didn't read the boards, my arse 
Listing only a dozen or so items???? 

DUDE!  Anybody who knows anything about stats knows that you can make stats look any way you want them to look.  Don't like the Alexa stats so pick another site?  Strange, indeed, as KaRay was liking the Alexa stats a while ago.

And, ohhhhhhh  puuuuuuuulease, don't give the majority of  paying on time, many listings. past WP'ers lessons on how to build a business.  Most of us here know how to build a business and part of that business plan does not now include WP, for obvious reasons. Trust me when I say.. It takes more than a *build it and they will come* attitude to build a business.

24,000 unique monthly visitors at WP

 
[/quote]

Sherrand brought up this seller earlier today. I'm still kinda in a blue funk over this post of his and have been pretty much at a loss of words.

I purchased quite a number of items from him at WP and we, I thought, had built quite a strong online relationship. I'd let him know when I bought my store domain and closed down my WP store. In fact, he was the FIRST to know, he knew exactly why I left, and why I had to postpone my departure from WP. I had planned to get out by Thanksgiving, but it wasn't until the first week of March due to two family members with major illnesses, two chronically ill sanctuary cats, and things going bonkers at work.

The last email I had from him was mid-last month, just before my husband was hospitalized with pneumonia that developed into plueral effusion. He told me then that he had a few more screenshots of his WP feedback to make and was going to start delisting. Though I haven't emailed him since I brought Craig home for a full week's worth of bedrest and we began all this home renovating, I just can't wrap my mind around his drastic change of heart toward Waggleopia.

[/quote]

EXACTLY my feelings.  This is what has me going.  WTF is up with the 180 turnaround with him?  I just don't get it.  Then he has the gall to say that the majority of sellers have left wp for non payment and the rest of the BS.  Him and I know each other too and HE KNOWS the real reason behind all of us leaving.

Looks to me like he is kissing Ray's ass now for some reason or another.  What that reason is, I don't care, but it sure as hell says a hell of a lot about his character, or lack there of.  Flip Flop like a dead fish out of water.

Either that or he is a fence sitter and will just say what people want to hear.  BS  Get him on one forum and he says one thing, then get him on another forum and he says another. 

Anywho, I shall put this person behind me because he is not worth the real estate in my head.

I hope that your hubby is feeling better and on the road to health.  Best wishes for him and you.

[The Pet Guy]

Ray

I have no doubt that you will read this. You have to ask yourself how indigent can you afford to be? I have submitted a dispute with PayPal. You will never ever under any circumstances collect another dime from me or my wife. How much is $9.95 worth to you? I have every email address to every person on WP. I will tell all of them how you treat your sellers when they decide that they desire to leave your clutches. I was one of your strongest chearleaders. I have praised you on this post and WP time after time. I now see the only thing important to you is collecting seller fees. We have tryed to be nice. It hasn't worked. You are about to see my true colors.

Harold

[chiquita]

This little post in from popland

The general argument at the time was that at $9.95, participation was a complete "no brainer"; that we would make up what we would not collect in listing fees with volume, as in multiple thousands of SSP accounts or Stores.

In many ways a solid plan, but all of the eggs to support that plan are firmly entrenced in the SSP volume aspect of it.

That anticipated level of participation has not come to pass, and leads me back to my earlier feeling that SSP might create as many revenue issues as the conception of it potentially solves.

Regarding the $75,000 budget provided by upper management; it would not surprise me one bit to have the plug pulled on that at any instant, for several reasons.

First, we have spent to date just over $36,000 of that six month $75K marketing budget, with very little to show in the way of results.

Secondly, this is real money we are talking about from people just like me and you. There has to be a return on that money, as we would all consider to be prudent and important.

Thirdly, at some point I would further expect that the participation on WP itself reflect the dollars and time invested in it. It's one thing to invest heavily of money and time, but quite another to read the market and decide what is appropriate based on response to that.

Fourth, $75,000 is indeed a lot of money, but in the world of online advertising, it's barely a drop in the ocean, and I think expectations were set way too high. Perhaps we are partly at fault for that, but we make our best projections out of excitement and enthusiasm and the potential to make a difference. Nothing more, but nothing less.

Fifth, to be fair and frank about it, if I report consistently to upper management that $9.95 is too high of a price to pay, how can it be expected that management continue to provide access to that $75,000 budget?

WP is led not by a corporation, but by regular online users like me and you, people like me, and like you.

In the extended edition of The Revolution, I believe we made the comparison between having a Store on eBay with 1000 listings vs on WP, and the difference was something on the order of $3,400 at eBay vs $9.95 here at WP.

Knowing that, and then having to realize that the $9.95 may be seen by many as "too high" leaves all of us feeling mostly deflated and more than a little perplexed.

It's $3,400 vs. $9.95!

If that $9.95, the lifeblood of our entire operation is considered unacceptable, then we are all unsure of what exactly it is we have created.

I find as time goes by that I am sure about less and less, but the one thing I am sure of is that WP and the growth of WP starts and ends where it should - with the sellers and buyers who participate.

No magic wands, no bottomless pit of funds, just participation pure and simple.
Karen - WP Customer Care

Unbelievable




THE MISCREANT COMIC

[sneakymagenta]

It's $3,400 vs. $9.95!

W-R-O-N-G


SNEAKY'S DYNAMIC PARTICIPATION COST ANALYSIS:
monthly fees $3400 E \$9.95 W
monthly sales $10,000 E \$2 W
---------------------
monthly Net $6,600 profit E  \(-$7.95 loss) WP

[yowlsnhowls]

[quote author=BeenThereDoneThat link=topic=3775.msg53640#msg53640 date=1179376641]

::: snip :::
EXACTLY my feelings.  This is what has me going.  WTF is up with the 180 turnaround with him?  I just don't get it.  Then he has the gall to say that the majority of sellers have left wp for non payment and the rest of the BS.  Him and I know each other too and HE KNOWS the real reason behind all of us leaving.

Looks to me like he is kissing Ray's ass now for some reason or another.  What that reason is, I don't care, but it sure as hell says a hell of a lot about his character, or lack there of.  Flip Flop like a dead fish out of water.

Either that or he is a fence sitter and will just say what people want to hear.  BS  Get him on one forum and he says one thing, then get him on another forum and he says another. 

Anywho, I shall put this person behind me because he is not worth the real estate in my head.

I hope that your hubby is feeling better and on the road to health.  Best wishes for him and you.
[/quote]

Ahhh, the internet. Can't live with it, can't live without it, can't jump through the monitor and kick the crap out of the idiots roaming freely on the other end.

Thanks, BT, for your kind words about Craig.  He went back to work on the 7th, but comes home most afternoons pretty fatigued. He claims he's feeling much better, though I still worry about him so.

xxxxxxxxx  17 May 2007 05:23      

I know this has gotten way off topic and Im sorry!

But a true revolution starts with ideas from the people,Not just a totalitarian point of view.

From what Ive seen tonight we have good ideas/points and seems to be moving forward!

This is what will help us keep going forward into the next and new year for WP!

Bolding my own.

By gravy, this guy and the soap lady were pretty out-spoken last night! Wonder how long before the big D (and I don't mean Dallas) hits this thread. Someone is bond to over-step the boundaries by having a mind of their own and POOF will go the entire topic.