Wagglepop 2: Deja Vu as Auction Site That Left Sellers Stranded Reopens

[Alskling]

128

[quote author=sneakymagenta link=topic=3775.msg70650#msg70650 date=1213055692]
Breaking news! Ray Romeo will close WP 2 and sell his copy of RScript in July!
More breaking news! Ray will open WP 2.5 in August!
WP 2's SSE will be renamed WP Auctions Gold 2.5!
WP 2.5 will charge users a $24.95 licensing fee to use its auction software!


Exclusive Preview of WP 2.5!



[/quote]

Sneaky, you're a genius.

[sneakymagenta]

Just a small update for loyal membership and our dedicated seller base on how the restructure is progressing.

As expected, as we abandon completely our original vision for Wagglepop as an eBay competitor (due to pronounced lack of good faith participation in the numbers required to do so ) and re-invent ourselves as a diverse retail-type marketplace, we start a new chapter in the history of our company.

Existing Wagglepop Marketplace sellers continue to leave, and we anticipate a merchant body of around 75-100 independent merchants will remain under SmartSell Enterprise. At some point we expect to cap that number and likely close the Marketplace to new merchants while we introduce a new requirements package to join the Marketplace.

The very fact that so many (who are leaving or who have left) consider less than $1.00 per day in fixed operating participation costs - in totality - to be too much to continue only cements for us as a company that the decision to set aside the original vison for Wagglepop as an eBay competitor was indeed the correct one to make and implement.

Wagglepop continues to represent an afforable and feature rich online selling opportunity - but outside of the handful of wonderfully visionary and dedicated members we have currently - woefully underutilized or underappreciated in general.

In many ways, that might have been expected to some degree - eBay has "institutionalized" it's seller body in many ways by making the very mechanisms that it offers seem as if they are the actual business dynamics, such as "listing" alone being a sum total of a business plan.

Based on current numbers, eBay sellers do not mind very much the fees and fee increases (beyond public complaints), and eBay apparently knows that and will continue to exploit that. Our own research indicates two more increases over the next 36 months as likely.

We will continue to offer a truly effective and affordable alternative, though we have very little expectation that we will increase the anticipated merchant base of 75-100, total. Should the merchant population drop to 10, then that is the number we are prepared to support.

Wagglepop was founded on a simple principle: That people would and could come together to support their own auction-style site, and based on that ability to organize generate the media attention and activity that would start and sustain growth.

Unfortunately, quite the opposite was the case. Sellers came, gave it 30-60-90 days, listed a few things, and left - oftentimes without honoring their outstanding balances, now in collection.

For some of us here it is difficult to verbalize our feelings about that. An awful lot of time and expense went into building and sustaining Wagglepop, and the continuation of it in any form reflects that very effort. We want those who wish to be here to get the very best site we can provide. Dedicated membership deserves nothing less.

As far as eBay goes, I can state with full assurance that the original Wagglepop vision and support structure was most likely the last best chance eBay members had to support something of their own. Built independently with private funds, we were prepared to re-invest every penny of participatory revenues back into the site to keep growing towards our competitor goal based on participation.

Sadly, none of that original vision has come to or will ever come to pass.

Many smaller independent sites are now closing (such as Bidville) or are woefully understructured to handle either traffic or customer needs.

For those remaining with us, we are honored to have you as a part of the Marketplace and we will soon begin population of the site under Wagglepop Marketshare so that we may offer a truly item and product rich destination for online shoppers.

I am unsure exactly why the online selling community continues to discard opportunities such as Wagglepop and favor instead villification of any attempts at non-eBay alternatives. While I understand that everyone wants to be heard - to have a voice on forums and blogs - I am confounded that so many would not recognize that a single voice of people building and working together at an alternative would speak volumes to both eBay and the media.

I am disturbed that so many of the so-called "independent" reporting/help sites have ignored Wagglepop, yet continue to tout themselves as impartial and part of the solution rather than an obvious symbol of the problem that eBay itself represents.

We waited two years for the online selling community to recognize this opportunity and do the work required, together, to finally show eBay that they work for membership, and not the other way around.

As a company - at worst - we lost some invested finances in the original Wagglepop vision through construction and operation. We can and will write much of that off in coming statements, and the restructure near ensures our ability to continue operation for many years to come.

The general online selling community and the people they serve?

They lost so much more.

 
         

Ownership has made it very clear to myself and staff that it is our responsibility to ensure that all merchants make on-time payment of seller fees as invoiced monthly.

The payment record for the "30-60-90" day crowd is utterly abysmal, and ownership contends that our management policy of a fully "open" marketplace is partly to blame.

I agree. I am personally tired of witnessing over 50% of staff resources dedicated to account referral and collections, malicious behavior, and processing of closures or suspensions.

New merchants who understand the User Agreement? We welcome them with open arms.

A continuation of past non-payment history? Ownership says "absolutely not", and I agree and support that 100%.

Expect changes related to that in the coming weeks, including introduction of a "requirements" package that will ensure we do not dilute oue existing dedicated merchants with dissimilar ones and/or waste valuable staff resources on basic User Agreement enforcement as related to seller invoicing and payment.

tolensmiley: tolensmiley: tolensmiley: tolensmiley: tolensmiley: tolensmiley:

xxxxxxx,

In regard to your statement about the number of Stores appoximating 800.

If everyone who had opened a Store had just stayed, we would have well in excess of 6,000 Stores today.

Six thousand.

With that, Wagglepop would have been like a freight train barreling through all forms of business related media and likely increasing in dimension exponentially in just a matter of months.

:lol14n: :lol14n: :lol14n: :lol14n: :lol14n: :lol14n:

I would hazard to guess that eBay never deals with the "non-payment" dynamic as we do. eBay asks for and stores credit card information for automated billing. They get every penny due and perhaps more based on word of mouth reports of incorrect billing there.

Wagglepop is a 100% trust-based community. For the protection of membership we do not ask for or store any sensitive financial information such as a credit cards. We refuse to put any of our members at potential risk. We feel it is not only the "right thing" to do to give sellers a safer selling environment, but our responsibility.

Unfortunately, an unexpectedly large portion of the general online selling community and the faith we put them in under that policy have been an incongruous and uncomfortable mix. Sadly, not all people can handle trust.

:hoxmassnow10: :hoxmassnow10: :hoxmassnow10: :hoxmassnow10: :hoxmassnow10: :hoxmassnow10:

[Alskling]

Just a small update for loyal membership and our dedicated seller base on how the restructure is progressing.

As expected, as we abandon completely our original vi son for Wagglepop as an eBay competitor (due to pronounced lack of good faith participation in the numbers required to do so ) and re-invent ourselves as a diverse retail-type marketplace, we start a new chapter in the history of our company.

Existing Wagglepop Marketplace sellers continue to leave, and we anticipate a merchant body of around 75-100 independent merchants will remain under SmartSell Enterprise. At some point we expect to cap that number and likely close the Marketplace to new merchants while we introduce a new requirements package to join the Marketplace.

The very fact that so many (who are leaving or who have left) consider less than $1.00 per day in fixed operating participation costs - in totality - to be too much to continue only cements for us as a company that the decision to set aside the original vison for Wagglepop as an eBay competitor was indeed the correct one to make and implement.

Wagglepop continues to represent an afforable and feature rich online selling opportunity - but outside of the handful of wonderfully visionary and dedicated members we have currently - woefully underutilized or underappreciated in general.

In many ways, that might have been expected to some degree - eBay has "institutionalized" it's seller body in many ways by making the very mechanisms that it offers seem as if they are the actual business dynamics, such as "listing" alone being a sum total of a business plan.

Based on current numbers, eBay sellers do not mind very much the fees and fee increases (beyond public complaints), and eBay apparently knows that and will continue to exploit that. Our own research indicates two more increases over the next 36 months as likely.

We will continue to offer a truly effective and affordable alternative, though we have very little expectation that we will increase the anticipated merchant base of 75-100, total. Should the merchant population drop to 10, then that is the number we are prepared to support.

Wagglepop was founded on a simple principle: That people would and could come together to support their own auction-style site, and based on that ability to organize generate the media attention and activity that would start and sustain growth.

Unfortunately, quite the opposite was the case. Sellers came, gave it 30-60-90 days, listed a few things, and left - oftentimes without honoring their outstanding balances, now in collection.

For some of us here it is difficult to verbalize our feelings about that. An awful lot of time and expense went into building and sustaining Wagglepop, and the continuation of it in any form reflects that very effort. We want those who wish to be here to get the very best site we can provide. Dedicated membership deserves nothing less.

As far as eBay goes, I can state with full assurance that the original Wagglepop vision and support structure was most likely the last best chance eBay members had to support something of their own. Built independently with private funds, we were prepared to re-invest every penny of participatory revenues back into the site to keep growing towards our competitor goal based on participation.

Sadly, none of that original vision has come to or will ever come to pass.

Many smaller independent sites are now closing (such as Bidville) or are woefully understructured to handle either traffic or customer needs.

For those remaining with us, we are honored to have you as a part of the Marketplace and we will soon begin population of the site under Wagglepop Marketshare so that we may offer a truly item and product rich destination for online shoppers.

I am unsure exactly why the online selling community continues to discard opportunities such as Wagglepop and favor instead villification of any attempts at non-eBay alternatives. While I understand that everyone wants to be heard - to have a voice on forums and blogs - I am confounded that so many would not recognize that a single voice of people building and working together at an alternative would speak volumes to both eBay and the media.

I am disturbed that so many of the so-called "independent" reporting/help sites have ignored Wagglepop, yet continue to tout themselves as impartial and part of the solution rather than an obvious symbol of the problem that eBay itself represents.

We waited two years for the online selling community to recognize this opportunity and do the work required, together, to finally show eBay that they work for membership, and not the other way around.

As a company - at worst - we lost some invested finances in the original Wagglepop vision through construction and operation. We can and will write much of that off in coming statements, and the restructure near ensures our ability to continue operation for many years to come.

The general online selling community and the people they serve?

They lost so much more.

And now the no booty-kissing, no abridged form:

"There was a time we thought that with King Ray's hot-headed ego, hatred of eBay, and ability to crank full volume on his smoke and mirror machines, we could flip a red-hot, pulsating middle finger at eBay by snaring naive, disillusioned eBays sellers before they had a chance to find other more productive venues or figure out how to get smart and start their own sites. Unfortunately, most who gave us a try did not turn out to be the manic-depressive, easily-fooled, Koolaid drinkers we'd hope they'd be. Shame on them! And shame on those still on our rosters who are preparing to blow our poop stand. They are all good-for-nothings and fools for thinking eBay, with all its presence, traffic, track record and proven success could be more attractive than our piss-poor excuse for an auction venue that doesn't work, has no money to advertise and nobody visits -- or that they could do better with their own sites instead of working like slaves and unquestioningly hand over their money for the glory of WP, receiving nothing in return. And shame on the media for not recognizing our nano-blip on the radar screen is not particularly "newsworthy". And while we're at it, let's blame those trolls, miscreants, and naysayers one more time before we kiss Ray's ego-driven "original vision" good-by.  And as a parting shot, without disclosing sources (because we just made it up), for you eBay sellers still out there, eBay is going to raise rates on you some more soon. So there. HA! May you rot in hell.

Goodby WP2. "We hardly knew ya." Oh, wait, that was WP1? Oh well. We'd NEVER admit we have no business sense and failed AGAIN. Rather we've come up with a new scam to keep us fuzzy, pink-slipper clad - the WP Marketplace program. And if you think the old WP was a cultist, oppressive, despotic regime, just wait till you see what we have coming."

[Platzki]

My gawd... does that man never shut up?  BLAH BLAH BLAH... It's like he just keeps cloning a post over and over again.

A freight train... WP?  Um, no.  When are these poppers going to realize that it's not WP as a whole that they are working for... that each seller is on their own.  INDEPENDENT sellers as Ray refers to them... even he tells them that he's not behind them... they are just too drunk on the kool-aid to see it.

And the thing about sellers in collection... BAH!  I would bet that he doesn't even have a collection company working for him, let alone accounts in collection.

And Ray, you are right... you and eBay are different and sellers fail to see that.  Only WP sellers though.  You see, eBay doesn't post on the forums crying about money and collections and how nobody acknowledges them.........

I am unsure exactly why the online selling community continues to discard opportunities such as Wagglepop and favor instead villification of any attempts at non-eBay alternatives. While I understand that everyone wants to be heard - to have a voice on forums and blogs - I am confounded that so many would not recognize that a single voice of people building and working together at an alternative would speak volumes to both eBay and the media.

I am disturbed that so many of the so-called "independent" reporting/help sites have ignored Wagglepop, yet continue to tout themselves as impartial and part of the solution rather than an obvious symbol of the problem that eBay itself represents.

Poor baby, if you feel that you're not getting enough attention... get a dog.

[xwpopper]

"Many smaller independent sites are now closing (such as Bidville) or are woefully understructured to handle either traffic or customer needs."
Did he really call Bidville a small independent site? And WP is not?
Over 1 million listings for years, and a corporate buyout... hardly small independent.
I'd call Wagglepop a small, very small independent though. And, none of the woefully understructured sites require a BS phone registration. That makes WP a real boil on the butt of e-commerce.

"We will continue to offer a truly effective and affordable alternative, though we have very little expectation that we will increase the anticipated merchant base of 75-100, total. Should the merchant population drop to 10, then that is the number we are prepared to support."
Translation: We don't care if you stay or go. We will fill the site with dropshipped items and sell it with or without you.

"As far as eBay goes, I can state with full assurance that the original Wagglepop vision and support structure was most likely the last best chance eBay members had to support something of their own. Built independently with private funds, we were prepared to re-invest every penny of participatory revenues back into the site to keep growing towards our competitor goal based on participation."
I never saw one penny reinvested when I was there, except for a phone registration. And believe me, it is not their last best chance. They were smart enough to leave for a better best chance.

"I am disturbed that so many of the so-called "independent" reporting/help sites have ignored Wagglepop, yet continue to tout themselves as impartial and part of the solution rather than an obvious symbol of the problem that eBay itself represents."
Is he talking about AuctionBytes, who clearly said they would not mention WP since they can't even be open and honest about who really runs WP? This was said 2 years ago Ray... and Ina was right.

"I am personally tired of witnessing over 50% of staff resources dedicated to account referral and collections, malicious behavior, and processing of closures or suspensions... Expect changes related to that in the coming weeks, including introduction of a "requirements" package that will ensure we do not dilute oue existing dedicated merchants with dissimilar ones and/or waste valuable staff resources on basic User Agreement enforcement as related to seller invoicing and payment."
Sorry Ray, every marketplace deals with stuff like that, and they are 1 man run shows. If you want the respect of your 10 members that will stay on board, tell them the truth about all your alter-ego staff members. To members, this means you will have an audience of exactly 75-100 buyers from today forward. 

"I would hazard to guess that eBay never deals with the "non-payment" dynamic as we do. eBay asks for and stores credit card information for automated billing. They get every penny due and perhaps more based on word of mouth reports of incorrect billing there."
Word of mouth reports of incorrect billing. Hey jackass, you incorrectly billed me almost 4 days after I asked to close my store, then idly threatened collection. Pot calling the kettle black? Because I am sure eBay got every penny for your 2% sell-through of magazine pages.

"Wagglepop is a 100% trust-based community. For the protection of membership we do not ask for or store any sensitive financial information such as a credit cards. We refuse to put any of our members at potential risk. We feel it is not only the "right thing" to do to give sellers a safer selling environment, but our responsibility."
Or maybe it's because RScript doesn't integrate merchant accounts?

"Unfortunately, an unexpectedly large portion of the general online selling community and the faith we put them in under that policy have been an incongruous and uncomfortable mix. Sadly, not all people can handle trust."
Incongruous... Been skimming the dictionary again to sound smart? I really don't see how Ray can get away with the "Trust" statements. That means only 100 out of 6,000 sellers were trustworthy. That is an irrelevant and illogical consideration.  You lost good honest supporters boinker, because you are a FRAUD.

But just think of all the dynamic new terms Ray has loaned to the OAI... Wildly disparate, Healthy dynamic, Trust Based Environment. Where would we be without him?

[amy]

Every smart online seller who considers himself/herself an intelligent business person should have taken advantage of the wonderful business tools Wagglepop has to offer.

I'm spending the week at IRCE with 5000 plus of my fellow sellers (and 3 TTers) and all of the attendees are obviously NOT "intelligent business persons" because I've yet to find a single seller who is selling on Wagglepop or has even heard of it (correction: the 3 other TTers have heard of WP).   The organizers of this event are obviously morons too because Thursday's "Powering Your Store with a Third-Party Engine" workshop includes Amazon and eBay Stores but not Wagglepop Stores--don't the organizers know that WP is the best opportunity ever created for online sellers?

arcasm1:

I hope new implementations for a new payment procedure will be put into place, as I have no problems with submitting a checking account or credit card to allow Wagglepop to deduct the montly fees, I feel they deserve!

I am confounded that so many would not recognize that a single voice of people building and working together at an alternative would speak volumes to both eBay and the media.

You really need to get over your obsession with eBay. Most sellers are busy trying to improve their own businesses and don't have time to devote to obsessing over sending a message to someone else's business (i.e. eBay) about how the other company should be running their business.  Plus, If I'm going to devote time to attracting media attention it will be to "speak volumes" about my own business not someone else's (i.e. eBay or WP)

We waited two years for the online selling community to recognize this opportunity and do the work required, together, to finally show eBay that they work for membership, and not the other way around.

There's that obsession with eBay again.  Apparently trying to change eBay policy (rather than building an alternative to eBay) is the #1 reason for WP's existence--which might explain why Ray sells on his true love eBay not WP.

If everyone who had opened a Store had just stayed, we would have well in excess of 6,000 Stores today.

Six thousand.

With that, Wagglepop would have been like a freight train barreling through all forms of business related media and likely increasing in dimension exponentially in just a matter of months.

No, actually with 6000 stores you'd be about where eBid is--barely a blip on any media outlet's radar (eBid has 4000+ stores total on its various country sites)

Did he really call Bidville a small independent site? And WP is not?
Over 1 million listings for years, and a corporate buyout... hardly small independent.

2 corporate buyouts: Royal Palm Capital and Ubid.  There was also the merger with another Royal Palm controlled company, children's DVD maker DigiKidz, a few months before Bidville Inc sold the Bidville assets to Ubid (and kept the DigiKidz assets). 

Ray calling Bidville an independent made me laugh too.

[youroverheadbin]

My fellow TTers have done a terrific job picking apart or debunking the latest trash to be posted by AndRay. If that Boinktard could harness that ego of his and convert it to fuel the world wouldn't be facing an energy crisis. 

[quote author=sneakymagenta link=topic=3775.msg70654#msg70654 date=1213065781]

xxxxxxx,

In regard to your statement about the number of Stores appoximating 800.

If everyone who had opened a Store had just stayed, we would have well in excess of 6,000 Stores today.

Six thousand.

With that, Wagglepop would have been like a freight train barreling through all forms of business related media and likely increasing in dimension exponentially in just a matter of months.

[/quote]



Stores opened now closed from May 16, 2006 - January 28, 2008    1,413
Stores opened now closed from January 29, 2008 to the present      525
Stores opened since May 16, 2006 that are currently still active      160 of which 33 are empty.

Total stores to have signed up for WP2:  2,098

I've provided many store stats in the past. To do this I researched each and every store that opened since day one. Since January 2007 I've kept an active log of all store activity. I know I'm missing a few from before Jan/07 because Ray has masked them with the "Requested Task Could Not Be Completed" landing page. DB and Truth are 2 of these stores. So lets say I'm out by 100. Heck let's be generous and say 200. That is still a far cry from 6,000!! 

Now I didn't include the ones who left and came back as 2 stores, sometimes 3. Nor did I include the ones which led to a dead "store closed" link because they decided to change the name of their store. But if they were included that still wouldn't account for the other 4,000 to bring us to 'well over 6,000'.

This little bit of negative bragging has to make the top ten biggest lies as told by Ray Romeo.

BTW, Ray, your spelling is getting sloppy lately.  May I suggest that your hamster proof-read your crapola before you hit submit?

[youroverheadbin]

[quote author=Designers Bargains link=topic=3775.msg70644#msg70644 date=1212984030]
Another conundrum: EMR Collectibles (Snugglepuppy). Registered in May, 2006. ZERO feedbacks in 6 months. 303 FBs total -- almost all as BUYER to other WP sellers. Hardly any sales (mostly to buyers back in 2006 who are no longer at WP) and suddenly she creates a SHOWCASE/FEATURED store. Hmmmm.

Did she sign up for WP Dropshippers Unite?
[/quote]

DB, I can explain this one for you. Snugglypuppy used to post here remember? She closed her EMR store, when, I didn't note specifically but it was a while ago. Later (Sept/07) she opened a new store, Cavalier Collectibles, and built it up to a Showcase which used to display on page one. With the Revolution Rewind she decided to take advantage of this amazing offer and re-opened EMR in Mar/08. So at this point she had 2 stores active.

With the announcement of the new fee structure we have to assume she decided to close Cavalier and concentrate on EMR, upgrading it in the process. This explains the gap in feedback as well.

[Alskling]

Sherrand,

OK. Maybe that explains the gap in feedback, but still doesn't explain why in blue-blazing Koolaid she would have a Showcase/Featured store at all when nearly all of the feedbacks she has is as a buyer, not a seller. And why now, instead of back before WP lost most of the sellers she used to buy from?

Oh, and I don't know about harnessing Ray's ego, but with all the hot air he spouts I think it would be safe to assume he's responsible for at least one degree of global warming.

OH, and another thing about the stores, Sherrand. Are you including the "ghosts" and the stores run by dead baseball players?

[let the truth be told]

[quote author=sherrand link=topic=3775.msg70665#msg70665 date=1213122474]
I've provided many store stats in the past. To do this I researched each and every store that opened since day one. Since January 2007 I've kept an active log of all store activity. I know I'm missing a few from before Jan/07 because Ray has masked them with the "Requested Task Could Not Be Completed" landing page. DB and Truth are 2 of these stores. So lets say I'm out by 100. Heck let's be generous and say 200. That is still a far cry from 6,000!!   
[/quote]
Bolding mine.

That must be an honor reserved for paid feebay employees. Hey DB I have been donating my half of the check to the boinktard literacy fund but I don't think it is helping much. Any recommendations for a needy charity of the OAI? I would be willing to add a zero or 2 to my check. 


Hey Ray 


Let the Truth be Told