Ex PESA n's R US: Internet Merchants Association formed by ex PeSA members

[bargainbloodhound]

[quote author=xppman link=topic=5799.msg31563#msg31563 date=1163128823]
PS it sux to see u all be so negative so BITE me OK?

[/quote]

It's a positive thread.   PeSA('s leadership) sucks and only looks out for a tiny number of sellers.  As a result of PeSA('s leadership) sucking, a new sellers group the IMA is being formed (see post #71).

[mandy]

I WILL say THIS.
Can any of you at least give any other "group" a try and QUIT BASHING EVERYONE?

This thread is designed to help sellers.  Read the announcement of a new sellers group...  

http://community.tuliptools.com/index.ph...l#msg31538

[BellisimaJ.]

From TRS:

PeSA's Announcement from TODAY:



##########################################
PESA Town Hall with Rob Chestnut eBay Trust and Safety
##########################################

We are pleased to annnounce our first PESA Town Hall conference call with
Rob Chestnut, Senior Vice President, eBay Global Trust & Safety, this coming
Wednesday Nov. 15th, 2006 at 12 noon Eastern Time. Today eBay released their
new Safeguarding ID program. The eBay community, and PESA in particular, has
been calling for just such a program for some time. Today's launch is the
first stage of a two stage launch. The purpose of the call is to afford PESA
members an opportunity to provide input on the program.

Mr Chestnut will have with him the technical designers of this feature and
several other Trust and Safety executives. He is very interested in;

a) hearing your assessment of the stage one roll out
and
b) hearing your ideas, comments and suggestions for stage two before he
completes that roll out.

The call will be limited to the first 100 PESA members who call in. We may
have time to address other related Trust and Safety topics. We will likely
have time for approximately 15-20 questions. So once you log in to the call,
please make sure to register your questions early with the call operator.
The call will be moderated by Jonathan Garriss, PESA CEO and Tom Mersch PESA
Board Member. This call is limited to PESA members only.

This is just the first of what will soon be regularly scheduled PESA
organizational and PESA/eBay town hall conference calls to come. If you have
suggestions for future Town Hall conference call topics, we would love to
hear them.

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=5

[BellisimaJ.]

. Today eBay released their
new Safeguarding ID program. The eBay community, and PESA in particular, has
been calling for just such a program for some time.

Is PeSA responsible for this stupid, reprehensible, possibly illegal new way to allow shill bidding? :twistedevil:


Edited to add:

Link below to original TT thread re Rob Chestnut's announcement from Nov 2, 2006.


http://community.tuliptools.com/index.ph...731.0.html

[xppman]

So why not form your own PESA group instead of talking about "others" who are at least trying to do something?
I mean talking about other groups negatively
is not really helping anyone .. is it?

I vote for the name TTSA.
Then others can bash US for what WE do for our little group.  ;D

[xppman]

PS form the group.
I'll volunteer to go stand on Megs desk and bitch slap her a few hundred times.  8)

[BellisimaJ.]

From TRS:

tra*********
10/15/06 06:21 PM (#271)








Wow. Now I know why there has been a consistent request to rewrite the bylaws ...






1bu
10/15/06 06:28 PM (#272)








Ti*******

WOW is an understatement

Mi*****, my opinion, yes the time is right now. No need for PESA to be involved with EMCTA.

If Joe and/or Jonathan want to start a new group EMCTA, more power to them.

But if that is the case I respectfully request they both resign from PESA so we can move the group forward. As you know I ran twice for BOD and would be glad to run again if requested to do so if they did step down. But PESA is not theres and the yshould ne be associating our group PESA with any new EMCTA

St******






lau******
10/15/06 06:37 PM (#273)








St*****,

It's not unusual for people to sit on more than one BOD. I believe Meg is still on the Board of Proctor & Gamble. I've personally been on the Board of 3 organizations simultaneously.

PESA, as shown, was organized as a non-profit. Getting PESA into IRS compliance will eventually have to happen.

But I don't see a conflict of interest. What I see is EMCTA benefits being granted to PESA members. If you don't choose to see what those benefits are, that's up to you. But I don't mind a complimentary membership because, knowing Jonathan, I'm sure it's going to evolve into something good.

L*******






1bu********
10/15/06 06:42 PM (#274)








Okay the way I see it wee need the following answers.

• Immediately disclose the financial structure of the group.
• Immediately disclose if PESA is a non profit corporation.
• Immediately disclose if EMCTA is a non profit corporation.
• Is PESA intended to be a trade association owned by its members in equal share.
• Immediately disclose who are the shareholders of PESA.
• Immediately disclose who are the shareholders EMCTA.
• Immediately disclose if there are intentions to turn either PESA or EMCTA into a for profit company where an individual or group of individual are after personal gain.
• Immediately announce if a by-law committee is being formed and if new by laws are forthcoming.
• Immediately announce if agreeable to expanding the PESA BOD from the current 5 to 11-13.


Others please let me know your thoughts, what I would like to know is if we should post a poll of members asking if members agree we should have answers to all the above prior to anyone paying dues, (or fees as is the case if it is not a non profit)






1bu********
10/15/06 06:46 PM (#275)








L*******

I do and others do mind complimentary membership and Jonathan and/or Joe associating OUR group PESA with EMCTA, if indeed EMCTA is not also OUR organization and is intended to be run as a for profit company.

If that is the case then PESA should be granted royalties from EMCTA for any and all revenues generated.

So yes I see a potential conflict here. You cannot compare this to Meg's situation where she sits on several boards of public companies all for profit companies. You are much smarter then that L*****, C'mon


St********






emo*********
10/15/06 06:52 PM (#276)








Do the board members of Coke also sit on the Pepsi board? I don't think so. I think there IS a clear "conflict of interest" between PESA and EMCTA, and I DO resent that one is being used to further the interests of the other (especially since I can't even find out who owns either)!.

Br*******






jayandmarie
10/15/06 06:52 PM (#277)







This post is a photo of a man biting the pants leg of another man at his ankle




JAY







lau********
10/15/06 07:00 PM (#278)








St*****,

You're also much smarter than that.

PESA is a non-profit through the E-commerce Merchants Alliance as registered in NH. You cannot change that status. Nobody can. If I'm mistaken, please point me in the direction of NH law allowing it.

There would be no shares, because non-profits do not file Articles of Incorporation. NH requires an Articles of Agreement.

The only real question is the IRS status, and it's absolutely plausible that it would take time to meet compliance.

If the new group is a "for-profit" entity... so what? Jonathan has stated that it's a seperate organization and if we get some perks from it, GREAT!

L*****






1bu******
10/15/06 07:10 PM (#279)








L******

you may think it is great, but I and other do not think it is great, It is great for Jonathan Maybe, but not great fro PESA.

If this is the plan for EMCTA to be a for profit company, then I repeat they should not be using OUR group PESA for their benefit unless of course PESA gets royalties, say 95% of revenue would be fair.

Why in the world would WE PESA members, in OUR group allow anyone to use us for their benefit.

Totally absurd, and without members PESA is nothing.

It would not be hard for those who think like I od to simply form another group and all the power and assets will lie in the new group, because without members PESA is nothing and worth nothing to EMCTA.

St*******






joefriday2
10/15/06 07:28 PM (#280)








Three years to get in compliance with IRS non profit requirements? And still not there?

What kind of tax returns has PESA been filing in the meantime?

Ben

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=5

[BellisimaJ.]

From TRS:

Wow! This guy cuts it right to the bone:

Quote:
• Immediately disclose the financial structure of the group.
• Immediately disclose if PESA is a non profit corporation.
• Immediately disclose if EMCTA is a non profit corporation.
• Is PESA intended to be a trade association owned by its members in equal share.
• Immediately disclose who are the shareholders of PESA.
• Immediately disclose who are the shareholders EMCTA.
• Immediately disclose if there are intentions to turn either PESA or EMCTA into a for profit company where an individual or group of individual are after personal gain.
• Immediately announce if a by-law committee is being formed and if new by laws are forthcoming.
• Immediately announce if agreeable to expanding the PESA BOD from the current 5 to 11-13.
Reply With Quote

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=5

[BellisimaJ.]

From TRS:

2d*******
10/15/06 07:28 PM (#281)








I lurk much more than I post, but will post to this. I have been a member of PESA for 1bu********
10/15/06 08:50 PM (#291)








Z******

you are correct, I should rephrase it . As of now the majority of members who have voiced an opinion seem to agree with my position,

St******






al*********
10/15/06 08:52 PM (#292)








Thank you, St******. It is now completely accurate.






tig*******
10/15/06 08:54 PM (#293)








May I interject a request here - that might be important or all sides of the issues - prior to asking about locking this thread or choosing sides?

I've seen a lot of references to past achievements over the past year, and the ones I know about are the Summits and vendor participation. Could someone please list the other achievements here in a neutral manner?

B********






spo******
10/15/06 09:10 PM (#294)








B******:

Personally, I met three of the top seller development people at Amazon, and can converse with them regularly. It only would have happened through PeSA involvement.

I met two persons who wish to design my website for a reasonable price through PeSA.

I found a source that would not be available to me without PeSA.

I have the open ear of a stock analyst that only would have happened through PeSA.

I'm sticking around. Hopefully, that was neutral enough.

T*******






spo********
10/15/06 09:11 PM (#295)








Should PeSA respond to the questions posted on this thread? Yes.

T******






ac*********
10/15/06 09:25 PM (#296)








What has happened to this thread? I guess I need to respond to a few questions presented above.

But, first everybody needs to know that UGA got Vandy-lized! That made my weekend even though the Falcons couldn't figure out how to win today. The last time Vandy beat Georgia, the coach lost his job. Any guesses who the next coach will be?

Mi*****, here's a little information about the split in Sept. of 2004. The split was caused because of the Board's decision on a couple of issues. The five Board members resigned because they were informed that they were just an advisory Board and their decisions were reversed. David Hardin who was not then a Board member, reached out to both sides and moderated a reunion. The agreement did present that Joe would have a permanent 'founding chair' position on the BOD. Jonathan and Barry returned to the BOD and Jay, myself and Mike Lazar did not. The makeup of the 'founding chair' seat was not decided. I was hoping that position would only vote in case of a tie, not to get a second vote when there is a tie. But, The BOD would not be just an advisory group. It was agreed the BOD would be empowered to make binding decisions for Pesa by a majority vote.

j******


Bolding Mine - TR




su********
10/15/06 09:44 PM (#297)








Folks, if you are looking to me to lock this thread, I'll let you in on a little secret. I have no intention of locking it. My only duty here will be to moderate the discussion. If even.

... However, truthfully right now I'm deciding whether or not I want to be a moderator.

I too have been here for several years, since before and attended the New York summit. I've met most of you and you've met me. Most people know I'm quite opinionated and frankly sitting as a moderator isn't much fun during times like these. However, I've learned quite a bit about discipline here and I can't say that is all bad. Meanwhile, as having served here and attended every summit except the last one, I can tell you that this particular disucssion is old hat now. We've heard it all before.

I would really like to hear from ALL of our elected board members on these issues for clarification. We elected people to guide and to lead this fine group. I trust that they will do the right thing here and make the distinction for us. That was the confidence given us when we elected new officials. We should at some point have some minutes and full disclosure to the members here who elected you

Board Members, please weigh in

Su********
(this is not an official communication of the moderators and is my own opinion.)






en********
10/15/06 10:16 PM (#298)








T*****:

Quote: "Personally, I met three of the top seller development people at Amazon, and can converse with them regularly. It only would have happened through PeSA involvement.

I met two persons who wish to design my website for a reasonable price through PeSA.

I found a source that would not be available to me without PeSA.

I have the open ear of a stock analyst that only would have happened through PeSA.

I'm sticking around. Hopefully, that was neutral enough."


No one would disagree with you. Most of us have experienced the same value from PeSA. The point is that you received those values because of the members, folks just like you and I. WE (the members) are the reason why PeSA is where it is today, not just a handful of us, ALL of us. For example, there is NO WAY in a month of Sundays that our Board would have ever gotten that personal meeting in SLC with eBay execs if PeSA had been an organization of 50 members. Yet they keep the details of that meeting from us, why? We elected (in most cases) them and yet they feel we are not deserving of an overview of what was discussed. I understand that some of it may have been sensitive in nature but not the whole darn meeting. I often feel, as a member of PeSA, that I am being used as leverage to further someone else's agenda.

You have done a great job T****** and I really do hope that you "stick around".






joefriday2
10/15/06 10:41 PM (#299)








Su*****, you are doing a great job as a moderator.

Also, it's a tribute to all PESA members as well as the board and the founder that this thread can even exist.

I don't know many places that would keep this thread up.

In the end, we all want what is best for PESA and this thread demonstrates that.

Ben






ge**********
10/16/06 06:18 AM (#300)








I actually think this thread has been quite civil, especially given past experience.

I guess we can all just wait and see now.

Mi*******about 2 years. I like this board and more than anything else find inspiration in many of the quality people on this board.

Questions to Joe C. are seldom answered on this board. I do not like being treated like a mushroom. I get that enough from eBay.

When Joe C. responds to a post it is often with a how dare you even ask / elitist attitude. I often shake my head in disbelief with the lack of professionalism.

I do not see how this kind of attitude is an asset, or a quality that a leader of a group should have. There are many PESA members who have problems with Joe C, how do we know if this extends to eBay, or elsewhere?

Hyping an eBay meeting for two weeks, than not disclosing anything from the meeting. This was one recent example of a complete joke.

I think Joe C. created an incredible organization, with great access for many people to businesses / companies. He should get a ton of credit for this. I do not think he is the right person to lead it.

A******






1bu********
10/15/06 07:32 PM (#282)








A*****

Many eacho your thoughts, thanks for posting and letting your thoughts be known, and this statement I think you can take to the bank

" There are many PESA members who have problems with Joe C, how do we know if this extends to eBay, or elsewhere?"

St****






en******
10/15/06 08:14 PM (#283)








I have read every post on this board (some several times). I have also gone back and read many historical threads to help me form an educated opinion. Here is my opinion of how we should move forward:

1. Offer PeSA members the opportunity to own a piece of ECMTA. Since the new ECMTA organization would not have come to existence without PeSA it only seems fair PeSA members should at least be offered the opportunity to own a piece of it.

2. ECMTA gets properly organized with the capital it has raised from selling shares. Since ECMTA is a new organization NOBODY gets a lifetime appointment to its BOD.

3. To avoid any controversy, I would suggest that Joe C. does not have any management role in ECMTA. If PeSA members are indeed allow to buy shares in ECMTA then Joe C. should also have that option, and the option down the road of standing for an elected position.

4. ECMTA becomes the entity that puts on the Summits, communicates with Wall Street, aligns Sponsors, negotiates with Vendors etc.. ECMTA holds annual shareholder meeting the day before or day after Summit.

5. PeSA remains predominantly as a message board with Joe remaining as group leader. Probably no reason for a PeSA BOD at that point.

6. PeSA not collect dues but instead ECMTA solicit PeSA members to become paying members of ECMTA.


Some members might be surprised at this post as I have been an avid supporter of PeSA and have fought in the past for the survival and independence of this fine organization. But let's get real folks. If Jonathan is focusing on ECMTA then ECMTA will be highest on his list of priorities not PeSA. It seems like PeSA has never been properly organized from the outset and there has always been a lack of transparency and a hidden agenda. I just don't see how 2 separate groups that are both funded by their members with similar objectives is going to be productive.

If it is decided that PeSA is still going to be the "main" organization then I will only pay dues if:

1. PeSA dramatically improves its transparency by providing minutes of Board meetings and provides its members with regular financial statements.

2. Joe C. gives up his lifetime appointment to the Board and seeks re-election like the other 4 board positions.

3. IF PeSA was to ever transition into a "for profit" organization that PeSA members be offered the opportunity to buy ownership in the new organization. (I'm darned if I spent hundreds of hours posting on this board and thousands of dollars traveling to Summits to NOT get the opportunity to participate in financial gain if it were to arise.)


Thanks for reading.....

Da*****






go*******
10/15/06 08:36 PM (#284)








St*******
You are starting to sound like Andrés Manuel López Obrador. Its not bad enough that Mexico is going thru tough times in general, but now he is trying to undermine the duly elected government. The fact that you ran for the BOD two times and have not been elected now lets me know what your agenda really is and I personally don't think it is helpful.

Thanks to Jonathan's and the BOD past successes, we have sponsors and media and the financial community visiting these postings. Do you think you are really doing the organization any justice by continuing this "insurgency"?

I am part of Pesa because of a great friendship I have developed with David Hardin. Besides being a successful businessman, his background in Banking leaves me with a lot of confidence. The fact that all Board members have fuduciary responsibilities and could be held liable if any misappropriation of funds occurs would lead me to believe that David would never be part of something that was less than honest.

Personally, since I have not spent any money on dues up to this point, I kind of almost feel I owe the organization something for all the good it has done me. I am therefore trying desperately to put an end to this discussion that is of no help to anyone.

If there are others out there who feel the same way, please let your voices be heard. I would suggest that we await for a further update from Jonathan as he has stated he would make in the near future.

Sincerely,
B*******






go*********
10/15/06 08:38 PM (#285)








Su****....please!!!!



li**********
10/15/06 08:40 PM (#286)








Hmmm, Joe had time to post a new thread. He has time to delete 'old' members (the numbers have fallen at least by 5 since he posted) yet he still is mute on this subject. It that his final answer?


Damn, maybe I shouldn't log out, I may not be able to get back in.






1bu********
10/15/06 08:46 PM (#287)








B*****

you have a right to voice your opinion, but others do as well includig myself. As of now the majority of members seem to agree with my position, and disagree wit hyours, including soe very influential and respected members.

If you want to be a private in Joe's army then so be it.

St*******






al********
10/15/06 08:48 PM (#288)








St*******,

Please don't speak for the group as to who agrees with who. I hardly think the "majority" has voiced an opinion. There are many members who have not posted yet are very much aware of what is going on. They may not be the "influential and respected" kind, but they are members all the same.

Z******






jayandmarie
10/15/06 08:49 PM (#289)








St*******, you post too often. We GET it.

JAY






ac*******
10/15/06 08:50 PM (#290)








"S****, you post too often. We GET it. "

I agree.

j******

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=5

[BellisimaJ.]

From TRS:

ac******

10/16/06 07:42 AM (#301)








Jay, I need to correct one of your posts. According to the records, I am currently the 'chair' of the Ethic's Committee. We have not had a meeting in almost 3 months, but I remain the chair. For about three months, five issues have been forwarded to the BOD for guidance. We're waiting on this guidance so we can move forward. The only decision they did make was not to allow additional members to the Ethics committee.

However, the BOD did spend several hours considering and debating a motion to remove me as chair because I participated in an email debate with a member of the BOD. The BOD did decide to keep me as chair by a 4-1 vote with the stipulation that I do not participate in further direct debates with a member of the BOD. The debate regarded one decision the Ethics made and the action it took without consulting the full BOD.

If I violate the stipulation, not only will I be removed as chair, I will also be asked to resign from Pesa. So, that is why I've been laying low and not posting much. I've been trying to figure out how to disagree with someone and create a post which doesn't sound like an attack. For me, that's tough. I have to admit that the debates got pretty heated.

I think this is partially why Jonathan wrote "the days of Board members fighting with members in a discussion forum are over" and possibly why other members of the BOD are not posting here. We're probably only going to have Jonathan respond to our queries.






ac*********
10/16/06 08:45 AM (#302)








So, Pesa is a FOR PROFIT corporation and Jonathan has ownership in Pesa. Jonathan disclosed this in the gopesa election question thread when he wrote "
I did form the new organization, but the ownership is distributed similar to PESA. I do have an interest in PESA".

I agree with and am not trying to dispute Jonathan's statement "There is no extra money lining anyone's pockets, especially not any Board member. As a matter of fact, it has been documented that several Board members have funded PESA to get things done; we even had a number of volunteers float expenses, which is not how an organization should operate." I don't think anyone else is trying to disagree.

Now that the BOD is asking for dues places a totally different perspective on the situation. Dues of $99 the first year and $240 per year after provides for the probability that the bank account will grow. This does build wealth for all of the owners / stockholders.

But, Jonathan's statement "I hope that I have earned the trust and respect of PESA members to let me get this done. That means that I won't post as much as I may like, but you should know that its because I think there are tangible improvements I can make in PESA to address the concerns here; and I find that spending my time on those initiatives are more important than chatting. If you don't believe it, then you should not pay your dues and hope the org finds support elsewhere; if you think things will move forward, then its probably worth staying involved" is troubling.

I haven't heard anyone asking for a member of the BOD to sit around and chat. I don't have time to sit around and chat either. What I see are simple requests for disclosure of information from the BOD. Since Jonathan appears to be the spokesperson for the BOD, he should take time to properly and adequately respond to the members questions. I hope the BOD is not saying that members should just accept the limited amount of information being released or go somewhere else.

Since Pesa is a business and Jonathan has ownership, I hope that he also run his business, Pesa, and address the questions presented by numerous Pesa members above.

IMO, disclosure and adequate communication would have prevented ~90% of the arguments concerning the BOD.






emo**********
10/16/06 10:01 AM (#303)








Maybe I am stupid and stubborn, but I don't want to be a member of an organization where I can't even find out who owns it. I did not mind this when it was free, but I do mind it now. For me, the benefit of my membership has been this discussion board and the contacts I have made from it.

If it is decided that we must put blind faith in the owners of Pesa (not knowing who they are) then I will likely let my membership lapse, and hope someone starts a new discussion group that I can join that includes many of the participants here.

Br*******






cos*******
10/16/06 10:12 AM (#304)








Br**** - You Jay and St***** start one. Off of ebay of course.

This place has my head spinning

K******






lar*********
10/16/06 10:18 AM (#305)








Br******, for me, your thoughts are the most troubling. I know very little of how "past PeSA" was. For myself, you represent to me the BEST OF PeSA. I know there are many amazing members here. I just have not had time yet to get to read and interact with many.

I would hope that seeing your sentiments so clearly stated would cause some very real concerns for the BOD.

Ha*******






fas********
10/16/06 10:21 AM (#306)








Gosh, this reminds me of the confernece calls in the "Elite" days.

My eyes are swelling up just bringing back those fond, fond memories.

Mi*******






fas********
10/16/06 10:23 AM (#307)








Ha******,

Keep an open mind and use Pesa for what it is worth. There are many folks here that will help you with your eBay goals - they did for me. Put politics aside and you will love this place!

Mi********






emo
10/16/06 10:46 AM (#308)








WHY is it a secret who owns Pesa and how much they own? Do the owners feel this information is either confidential or embarrassing, and if so, why?

I am not trying to speak for anyone other than myself. If my request to know who owns this is unreasonable, please tell me why. If no one answers at all, I will likely drop out when the dues start.

It is quite possible most of you don't care at all about this, and if so, there may well be 985 members of the new Pesa, and it is a certainty my absense will barely be noted.

Br*******






cos********
10/16/06 10:54 AM (#309)








I have been all over the road on this issue.

I try to hold myself to a set standard of excellence and expect my company to also.

But wait Br***** - you have to stay on the inside to determine who wins the prize on your contest.

But I don't believe it will be public as to how many numbers are in PESA after the transition is complete.

K******






1bu******
10/16/06 10:56 AM (#310)








Br*******

I am with you, I never joined a for profit company. I joined PESA, which was understood to me to be a member owned non profit corporation.

If it is not a non profit corporation owned by its members, and I am asked to pay dues, (in this case fees) then I will most likely now not. I have never in my life paid a fee to a company without knowing what product I was buying. I do not see why I should change now.

But I have a feeling we are not alone Bruce, I think if this is the case and PESA is a for profit company and /or EMCTA is and using PESA as leverage, then most here will wind up congregating on a new forum somewhere.

St******