Wagglepop 2: Deja Vu as Auction Site That Left Sellers Stranded Reopens

[eclectica]

[quote author=Riverwood link=topic=3775.msg57038#msg57038 date=1181837140]
[quote author=bratpack link=topic=3775.msg56941#msg56941 date=1181781343]
I really think/hope that this months round of store closings will be quite hefty.  I think the ones that our left sell as a hobby and must not need to make income off their wares or they are just staying because of the false sense of family amongst the members.  I think after the announcement of Karen departing and Andrew's bad cop routine, the feeling of belonging to an on-line "family" will be gone and thus many hard core poppers.  Anyone who stays after all that nonsense must be beyond the realm of help.  Its really very sad.
[/quote]

Morning All!

As a soon-to-be ex-koolaid drinker, I have a question for you folks that have been around this block a few times.  I know there's a million auction sites out there, many of them doing quite poorly with no traffic, some better than others, some of them charge, some of them don't, some of them advertise, some of them have virtually no advertising budget....very few of them seem to have the highly charged emotional impact that WP has had - neg. & pos.... (that I'm aware of).

Initially, WP seemed to be one of the auction sites that could be quite successful; it had numerous ebay refugee sellers, a similar set-up to ebay and lots of hype. Myself and many other sellers spent months & months promoting & promoting, only to find it extremely difficult to lure our customers over to buy there, or to get new traffic onto the site. I can tell you from my own perspective that getting even my regular customers to make purchases there was like pulling teeth without the novocaine, not sure why.  WP ballooned up to over 900 stores, only to dwindle back down to barely over 200. 

This is my question: What do you think is the one biggest contributing factor to the gradual decline of wagglepop?...is it Ray's treatment of sellers? is it bad karma from the first failed go-round? poor public perception of the site? lack of advertising? ebay being the place to buy? the efforts of nay-sayers? something else??? Just curious as to what people think
:cinqo2:
[/quote]

My personal opinion is that it boils down to what DB has been saying for months: WP wasn't, isn't, and will never be a business. It's the ego-maniacal experiment of a hothead that has delusions of grandeur. Seriously.

As far as "naysayers" - sure, word spreads quickly. So many things were promised, not one promise ever came to fruition. From the traffic-tripling Grand Opening that was way off the mark to the "Mercedes" of a bulk lister that sadly was nothing more than an Excel spreadsheet - and not a very sophisticated one at that. These disappointments and many more are being echoed on forums all over the place.

Ray missed the boat, I think. His ego wants an eBay competitor. An unlikely feat if you look at all the fledgling auction sites that aren't doing any better than WP. He should have picked a niche, something narrow enough to attract a distinct audience. I believe one of the mods here (Reg, Amy, BBH, Mandy - sorry if I left anyone out!) mentioned this before - a niche would have done far better (think Etsy).

As far as being emotionally charged, I think that goes back to the disappointment. Lies, censorship, flat out BS. That'll create an emotionally charged atmosphere in any area of life.

My 2 cents. Would love to hear others take on it also!

[Alskling]

What do you think is the one biggest contributing factor to the gradual decline of wagglepop?...

IMHO, the decline (and eventual demise) of WP can be attributed to (you put in the number) things: Ray and his multiple personalities -- period! -- All issues involving WP can be traced back to this source.

[bargainbloodhound]

Myself and many other sellers spent months & months promoting & promoting, only to find it extremely difficult to lure our customers over to buy there, or to get new traffic onto the site. I can tell you from my own perspective that getting even my regular customers to make purchases there was like pulling teeth without the novocaine, not sure why.

The main problem every alternative auction site has faced over the past 7 years: sellers want an eBay alternative auction site. 99.9% of eBay buyers don't.

Over 75% of online buyers prefer fixed price venues and never go near eBay/auction sites.  If you're looking for an alternative to eBay focus on fixed price (whether its Ecrater, Etsy, or your own website...and for media sellers Amazon, Alibris, etc.).

I believe one of the mods here (Reg, Amy, BBH, Mandy - sorry if I left anyone out!) mentioned this before - a niche would have done far better (think Etsy).

I told Ray a niche site might do better than a general auction site the day before he publicly announced his plans to open WP1 on FAS.  He obviously didn't listen.  ;D

[youroverheadbin]

I am about to share with you some research I've done on our dearly beloved Karma Gremlins. Although it is not conclusive it is quite damming. I'll let you all be the judges.

During the day of June 10th a number of TTers asked with tongue in cheek where PS and user could be, that they were missed. An assumption here is that a lurker alerted them to this conversation and that brought them scuttling over here. Or perhaps they decided to drop in of their own volition but the timing of last log-in for the pair suggests they showed up in tandem.

Profile for user391:
http://community.tuliptools.com/index.ph...file;u=405
Last Active:  June 10, 2007, 10:54:39 PM


Profile for PowerSeller:
http://community.tuliptools.com/index.ph...file;u=352
Last Active:  June 10, 2007, 10:56:21 PM

On the morning of June 11th two of the first TTers to log in made these comments:

[quote author=meowsnbarks link=topic=3775.msg56570#msg56570 date=1181562397]

Yeppers, the Karma Gremlins were out en masse last night.
[/quote]

[quote author=UniqueSeller link=topic=3775.msg56573#msg56573 date=1181563304]

Also doing the Karma round. Just noticed that my karma was lower this morning too. Awww, come on PS, you can come in to steal karma but not stop in to share your opinions?

~Patti~[/b]
[/quote]

And later in the day these:

[quote author=njr55 link=topic=3775.msg56664#msg56664 date=1181584658]
I see the karma gremlins have been at it again.  How do they do that when I'm not online?  What pages were mentioned before that we could go give them a "visit"?
[/quote]

[quote author=Designers Bargains link=topic=3775.msg56743#msg56743 date=1181648471]
Attention, attention: GREMLIN ALERT!!!!!!! Big hits reported among TT's referring to PS, "T", the "divine Boinktard", "Pooper" and/or use the "C" word.

[/quote]

Three of the four posters who mentioned the hits made the top 10 list. The fourth hasn't been around long enough to hit the charts:

[quote author=mandy link=topic=3775.msg56873#msg56873 date=1181736250]
:turkey2:  Karma Gremlins Hit List Scoreboard  :turkey2:

1. YouGuysSuckAss -148
2. Let the Truth be Told -115
3. PowerSeller -88
4. Designers Bargains -78
5. Bargainbloodhound -50
6. PrincessMirandajo -26
6. NJR55 -26
8. The Pet Guy -23
9. SneakyMagenta -22
10. Mandy -20
11. Flying High -19
12. I Want 1 2 -16
13. Scoop -15
14. Karma -11
15. UniqueSeller -9

[/quote]

I rest my case. 

[Riverwood]

[quote author=eclectica link=topic=3775.msg57040#msg57040 date=1181838018]
My personal opinion is that it boils down to what DB has been saying for months: WP wasn't, isn't, and will never be a business. It's the ego-maniacal experiment of a hothead that has delusions of grandeur. Seriously.
[/quote]

Sure, Ray handled many things badly but the WP "business" is made up of many businesses, that of the individual sellers, most of whom put great effort into promoting themselves.  I found that even though most of my buyers had never heard of wagglepop, they were very quick to go purchase what they wanted from me on one of my other venues, even with me trying to coax them to buy it on wp.  Always struck me as very strange.

[eclectica]

[quote author=Riverwood link=topic=3775.msg57044#msg57044 date=1181839230]
[quote author=eclectica link=topic=3775.msg57040#msg57040 date=1181838018]
My personal opinion is that it boils down to what DB has been saying for months: WP wasn't, isn't, and will never be a business. It's the ego-maniacal experiment of a hothead that has delusions of grandeur. Seriously.
[/quote]

Sure, Ray handled many things badly but the WP "business" is made up of many businesses, that of the individual sellers, most of whom put great effort into promoting themselves.  I found that even though most of my buyers had never heard of wagglepop, they were very quick to go purchase what they wanted from me on one of my other venues, even with me trying to coax them to buy it on wp.  Always struck me as very strange.
[/quote]

It is a bit strange. I ran into the same thing. As BBH just pointed out, most online buyers prefer fixed price venues. I have lots of repeat eBay buyers that prefer to buy from my website, so that kind of confirms, to me at least, what BBH is saying.

I hope you didn't take my assertions as a slam against the individual WP sellers - there are/were many fine sellers there that are wonderful business people. But when looking at WP as a whole, independent of it's parts, it isn't operated as a business and therefore, pretty well doomed.

[Riverwood]

[quote author=bargainbloodhound link=topic=3775.msg57042#msg57042 date=1181838555]
Over 75% of online buyers prefer fixed price venues and never go near eBay/auction sites.  If you're looking for an alternative to eBay focus on fixed price (whether its Ecrater, Etsy, or your own website...and for media sellers Amazon, Alibris, etc.).[/quote]

Yes, I agree and I've always used fixed price on WP - seldom do auctions anymore (unless ebay has a sale on of course, LOL!).

"I told Ray a niche site might do better than a general auction site the day before he publicly announced his plans to open WP1 on FAS.  He obviously didn't listen.  ;D"

Maybe so, hard to say.

[Alskling]

From BBH:

I told Ray a niche site might do better than a general auction site the day before he publicly announced his plans to open WP1 on FAS.  He obviously didn't listen

Ray listen? That would be a miracle worthy of Papal acknowlegment.

[eclectica]

[quote author=Designers Bargains link=topic=3775.msg57047#msg57047 date=1181840396]
From BBH:

I told Ray a niche site might do better than a general auction site the day before he publicly announced his plans to open WP1 on FAS.  He obviously didn't listen

Ray listen? That would be a miracle worthy of Papal acknowlegment.
[/quote]

So true. But think about it, if he'd listened, there probably wouldn't have been a WP2 and no Wagglepop TT thread. Thank you Ray for not listening 

[Riverwood]

[quote author=eclectica link=topic=3775.msg57045#msg57045 date=1181839572]

I hope you didn't take my assertions as a slam against the individual WP sellers - there are/were many fine sellers there that are wonderful business people. But when looking at WP as a whole, independent of it's parts, it isn't operated as a business and therefore, pretty well doomed.
[/quote]

Nope, not at all.  I was just there trying to run a profitable business, like everybody else, and having a helluva time trying to do it.  I was caught up in the rah-rah hype initially, but I'm such a practical earth mother, that that stuff doesn't hold my attention for long if there's no solid results I can hold in my hand. 
mileyyoyo:
Well, off to get a few groceries, and hopefully get at least some work done today!