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BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 02:04 AM,

FROM TRS:

Quote:aa********
10/24/06 10:38 AM (#531)

Ra****,

If it's that's easy, then by all means out them right here. If this is going on I'm sure everyone would like to know. However, as Jay pointed out, you don't know what members have multiple accounts, so I think you'd be treading on rather thin ice. Again, if this what the BOD was up to, don't you think there would be A LOT more new members then there are now?

You're making implications that impugn the integrity of the board without any evidence, then you demand they answer your questions. When the BOD does answer questions, then someone finds more questions to demand answers to without even acknowledging that their original false implications have been answered and debunked.

Perhaps you'd get more satisfaction by picking up the phone and talking to one of the BOD members, rather than constantly making unsubstantiated implications here on a semi-public forum.

JMHO.

Now, about that wager...

An*******

sho*********
10/24/06 10:50 AM (#532)

I will post this again from a earlier post since it fits perfect:

If all that is wanted is a bunch of members that keep quite, don't ask tough questions, expect no answers, pony up dues, pony up your name / sales in order for the BOD to get meetings with eBay then keep every part of that meeting secret. Then I guess maybe this is not the place for me. Maybe that is all you will have left in PeSA.

I guess I have made up my mind. I am sorry I am asking questions members don't like. I won't be a member much longer.

An*****- I hope you are right and PeSA does great things. Just don't be to disappointed when it falls apart.

Ra*****

aa*******
10/24/06 11:03 AM (#533)

Ra******,

No one is keeping you or anyone else from asking tough questions. On the flip side, you seem to want the right to say whatever you desire without anyone challenging you. You certainly have the right to ask/say whatever you want, but then don't other members also have the right to disagree? No one's asking you to keep quiet... personally, I'm just asking you to back up what you say. I've given you several opportunities to do so and you've refused. Isn't that basically what you're accusing the BOD of doing?

For the record, I fully agree that there are some issues that need to be resolved. For example, now that fees have been instituted, I expect a much greater level of communication and transparency (minutes, regular financial reports, etc.). Jonathan has acknowledged there is a problem here and has vowed to improve it. If that doesn't happen, then I'm sure many PeSAns (possibly including myself) will walk. It's really that simple.

But to continually imply that the BOD is using membership fees in some untoward way is simply unfair and unsubstantiated. To keep claiming that some people are here undeservedly is unfair and unsubstantiated. Now if you want to question, badger, argue, etc., then have it. If you make claims and implications that are unfair and unsubstantiated, then expect to be called on it. Not just here on PeSA, but anywhere. That's just life.

No one's asking you to be quiet... just constructive.

An********

sho*********
10/24/06 11:13 AM (#534)

"But to continually imply that the BOD is using membership fees in some untoward way is simply unfair and unsubstantiated."

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I never accused the BOD of anything except lack of communication. Communication is all I have asked for from day 1. I have not accused members of not qualifying. I said I have seen a lot of new members with low feedback and low items. I don't know anything about them. As far as minutes, regular financial reports, etc why do we have to pay dues to have access to this. I have also not seen anywhere that the BOD said once dues are paid we would have access to this. This SHOULD be available NOW. Updated Bylaws should be available NOW etc, etc, etc....

Ra*******

ac*********
10/24/06 11:21 AM (#535)

I'm pretty confident there is one undesirable type of member . That member is in what I call the parrot group. All they do is keep repeating themselves by posting the same message over and over and over.

aa********
10/24/06 11:24 AM (#536)

Ra*******,

I specifically said "imply" not "accused". Regardless, J**** St**** is right. I'm done with this conversation. If you're set on leaving, then leave. If you want to stay, then stay... it's really that simple.

An******

lau**********
10/24/06 11:25 AM (#537)

Hey J*****,

***APPLAUDING LOUDLY***

L****

joefriday2
10/24/06 12:49 PM (#538)

Ra********,

Just a question that is off topic. Are you making money selling on eBay these days? Profits up or down?

Ben

go*******
10/24/06 05:34 PM (#539)

Somehow I can't imagine the group without Br*****. I certainly cannot imagine the board without him.
It's not just Br*****, it's also many others. The group just won't be the same if a number of the active members leave.

spo********
10/24/06 05:50 PM (#540)

Bi*****, I agree. I don't think we will lose him over $100. I do think accounting and transparency are necessary to keep him, though. I think the same pertains to all the others.

T*********

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=7

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 02:05 AM,

FROM TRS:

Quote:go*********
10/24/06 06:08 PM (#541)

T******, I consider Br***** to be the tip of the iceberg. If he leaves, then we can be sure that he is not alone, and other reasonable members are going as well. While the group may be able to survive the loss of a few active members, if the numbers start to climb it's going to take a real toll.

emo********
10/24/06 06:54 PM (#542)

In Casablanca, Humphrey Bogart agrees to sell his cafe, but insists that Sidney Greenstreet keep Sam the piano player on, or there is no deal. Greenstreet agrees, saying, "Of course, Rick's would not be Rick's without Sam".

But I am no "Sam" and Pesa WILL be Pesa without me, and without many other frequent posters. But it won't be what we were all under the illusion it was, which is a non-profit group where we all got together to help each other. And because we were non-profit, and because we were composed solely of eBay's foremost sellers, eBay took us VERY seriously (and I guarantee you there were lots of eBay employees who read every word posted here!).

But the new Pesa will be just another trade organization, no different than the dozens of other similar trade organizations, and I doubt eBay will take it seriously at all. I have no doubt it WILL be a huge "profit center" for those who own it, for the very reasons I have outlined in my past few posts here. But it will have lost its "specialness".

But that "specialness" CAN and surely will be recaptured in some new forum somewhere else, and I very much look forward to being a part of that new forum. And it shouldn't interfere with the "new" Pesa, since it will be non-profit, and have entirely different objectives and goals. There will surely be room for every Pesa member in the new organization (although I hope the MEMCOM of THAT organization focuses more on quality of seller rather than quantity, and also focuses on the quality of the contributions the members make, so that there is room for members who sell little, but have much wisdom to share, and a willingness to share it).

T*******, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the $99. If the BOD waived the fee for me, I would feel no differently. But if they waived the fees for EVERYONE, and returned Pesa to its original goals (at least the ones I thought it had) then I would be its foremost booster.

But why should they? Once they get the grumblers and complainers out of Pesa (me and either a few others or a few hundred others; only time will tell) then the money will start rolling in hand over fist, and they can quickly add thousands of new members with relaxed standards (after all, they will say, a far larger Pesa is a far stronger Pesa). And maybe down the line you all will get some kind of accounting as to where all that money goes.

Remember when eBay first started and you could look over all the listings in each category in a few minutes? Back then we were all a "community", and "valued partners" of eBay, and we were all one big happy family. But as eBay grew bigger and bigger, they forgot those of us who made it what is became, and we became just another unimportant seller, someone who could be dispensed with with the flip of a switch by an ex-burger flipper.

Tell me that isn't an awful lot like Pesa! Right now the owners of the new for-profit Pesa need us to help them grow, but once they get those first few thousand members, what will we be to them? I went through this once with eBay, and I don't have any desire to go through it again!

Br******

spo*********
10/24/06 06:56 PM (#543)

I started a thread about the 180 on store fees last July. They didn't hurt Br*******(maybe helped him), but he stepped up and backed me. A class act.

Br******: Let's solve your issues and move forward.

T*****

go******
10/24/06 07:05 PM (#544)

Br****, for the record, being a non-profit doesn't mean a ton. It just says (at least in T****) that you don't get to keep company assets when the business dissolves.
I ran a non-profit humane organization for 8 years. Non-profits can still be very profitable for the people at the top. Look at United Way. Look at a number of the biggies. The largest humane organization in our town was mainly a cash machine that did very little with the donations except pay a couple hundred thou a year to the director and more outrageous salaries to the annoited few.

emo********
10/24/06 07:06 PM (#545)

T*****

I fear there is no "solution". I think my views and those of the new for-profit Pesa may be mutually exclusive, with no place to "meet in the middle".

But much thanks for the kind words! We will meet again down the line.

Br******

bi*******
10/24/06 07:24 PM (#546)

Br****** I just don't understand why any smart PESA member would jump ship before even seeing what happens in the first year. The info from this chat board alone is worth a lot more than $100. You have it in your head that they are in it for the money and don't want to give them a chance to prove otherwise. I believe they will prove you wrong. Working with Jonathan on the election committee has convinced me that he is in it for the members.
Gl*****

lau********
10/24/06 07:36 PM (#547)

Br*****,

Well... you're a gambling man, why not take a $99 chance for a year and see how it evolves?

Even as a "for-profit", $99 times the top estimates of 400 members isn't going to necessitate anyone buying an armored truck to haul the cash to the bank. $39,600 might cover salary & benefits for a dedicated employee with some left over to pay for incidental expenses. I can't foresee anything being left over, and even keeping 400 members is a crap-shoot.

I think PESA had Brian working for us for awhile, but he's gone now. I recall there'd be some complaints when problems came up but he did a pretty good job. To be totally transparent, I don't know if Brian actually worked for PESA or not. My belief is that Brian was actually on Jonathans payroll, but don't quote me on that. I know I never had to sign a check for the guy.

I'm not totally sure why Jonathan would dedicate those resources to PESA, just as I'm stumped when I hear of members who've made personal loans to pay the bills. I can tell you from committee work that the expenses involved aren't reimbursed and they do add up, not to mention the time involved which, of course, is irreplacable.

I guess what I'm saying is that 99 bucks for the next year isn't much of a stake. Moving to a dues-based org. might be the best thing that ever happened around here... why not stick around to find out?

L******

spo********
10/24/06 07:54 PM (#548)

"But why should they? Once they get the grumblers and complainers out of Pesa (me and either a few others or a few hundred others; only time will tell) then the money will start rolling in hand over fist, and they can quickly add thousands of new members with relaxed standards (after all, they will say, a far larger Pesa is a far stronger Pesa). And maybe down the line you all will get some kind of accounting as to where all that money goes." Bruce

"it shouldnt be viewed as a financial windfall because PESA isnt expected to show any profits." Jonathan

Do you really believe this will happen, Br****? I don't. If it does, I will find something better to do with my time.

T******

joefriday2
10/24/06 08:05 PM (#549)

I agree with most of you that the PESA system is still broken. But I threw my $99 into the hat to give them a chance to fix PESA. I've made a lot of money because of PESA and $99 is a bargain.

They have one year to fix PESA. If they don't fix it then I probably won't be here when it's time to renew next year.

The way I figure it, PESA has a lot of pressure to perform or lose the renewals. This is the first time members have been able to hold some power. We will vote with our feet if we do not get what we are supposed to get.

Ben

lar********
10/24/06 08:12 PM (#550)

I agree with Ben completely!

I see so many benefits in being a member of PeSA. The majority of those benefits are each of the members that post on this board.

I am happy to give PeSA a year, with a budget to work with, to work on resolving the concerns that most of us appear to share.

I'm confident, actually, that they will satisfy my need for more consistent communication, as well as transparency. The collection of dues significantly alters the obligation of the BOD to the members, and I am certain they are very aware of this.

Ha********

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 02:07 AM,

FROM TRS:

Quote:tig*******
10/24/06 08:15 PM (#551)

Unfortunately we necessarily have to read between the lines about PeSA's strongest asset: the lines of communication with eBay, the direction that process is taking, and what is even being communicated.

Putting it all together, in the absence of evidence to the contrary I think it's more than likely that eBay told the PeSA board that the current mode just isn't going to be feasible going forward. Because in practice PeSA is basically an eBay User Group and moreover a corporate entity privately held by one or two sellers, eBay could no longer justify special treatment.

My educated guess is that the vision of a bilateral conduit of information was impossible without some radical changes in the nature of PeSA itself, and that the necessary changes comprised the bulk of the recent meeting. That scenario fully explains and justifies the secrecy, whereas corporate culture and sensitivity to eBay's need for secrecy clearly do not.

Beyond the subject of discussion, we can deduce the content though only in general and with less certitude. Probably, eBay requires a legitimate and legally recognized trade association, with some kind of structured protocol of contact. It cannot be based on eBay or eBay's infrastructure (such as an eBay group), must have a certain threshold of membership, and some sort of guarantee of continuity of leadership and policy.

If this is mostly true, then this PeSA is not and cannot ever be the organization to fulfill that vision. ECMTA is potentially that organization. Logically, PeSA may remain as a chatboard and a loose affiliation of high-volume sellers, rolled into an adjunct of ECMTA which will perform the functions and provide the benefits which PeSA members are expecting. So no one should feel the slightest twinge of doubt, that they may be degrading PeSA's ability to achieve its mission nor should they feel that an opportunity may be lost by not continuing in PeSA. ECMTA inherits the mission, it will have the advantage of the PeSA membership by default, and will probably not refuse membership in the future to those who take a cautious approach now.

--B*******

This guy finally starts getting his brain wrapped around what we're really looking at here. There are a few things that come together.

Jonathan Garriss, the Exec Director of PeSA resigned in January of 2006, shortly after registering the ECMTA.org website. Then in April, Jonathan says to AuctionBytes that he's going to stay on through the end of the year. Talk about Jonathan leaving ends right there. Now the ECMTA gears up to go live.

It sounds to me like Jonathan was going to start his own org, but Joe made some deal to pull him back into PeSA, knowing that PeSA would crumble without him. And meanwhile Jonathan realizes that with PeSA on board, he can get his ECMTA group up and going MUCH faster than without it. -TR

go*********
10/24/06 08:19 PM (#552)

B*****, I may be a cynic, but I think eBay will ignore us just as much under the new set-up as they do now. They're going to do what they want, and they believe that they know better than anyone else. Plus, we have the long-term view, whereas they have the short-term "what raises the stock price this week" view.

spo********
10/24/06 08:24 PM (#553)

B******:

Well-spoken, but c'mon, 100 bucks? I don't have as much inside info (read that none) as you, but I know no one is getting rich off of PeSA dues.

T******

tig******
10/24/06 08:48 PM (#554)

T****, why don't you send me a 100 bucks and I'll put you on a newsletter list, with columns by featured sellers. It's only a hundred bucks.

I'm not serious of course. I don't want your c-note, which you're not likely to send anyway. The same way, I'm not particularly concerned about the membership dues. But my newsletter would be a tangible benefit, and would also have the potential of eventually delivering community concerns to eBay via the media and directly, in an open and transparent fashion. The point is there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and you don't go paying $100 to everyone with a flaying knife.

--B****

disclaimer: I don't have any inside information. Everything was based on deduction and experience.

spo**********
10/24/06 09:02 PM (#555)

B*****

The difference is that you and I have given to the organization. I haven't given to your newsletter. I do understand the frustration for you, Br****, St**** and other longtime members. However, I think we have reached the point that "tangible" benefits will come. "Tangible" in quotation marks as I think fellowship through this board, eBay Live and Summits has already been accomplished.

Transparency seems to be the task. Instead of the negativity unleashed in this thread, why don't we make some proactive posts? By-laws? Write them and submit them to the board. Here is mine: "Professional eBay Sellers Alliance is to be run as a "not-for-profit" organization. The definition of "not-for-profit" is that all funds not used in events will be returned to the members, or used for future events. There will be no stockholder distributions."

T*****

tig********
10/24/06 09:09 PM (#556)

T****, I think that is a great idea and I'm certain that there are people in this group with the competence to do a thoroughly professional job of it. I would encourage those individuals to take up that challenge, and I would hope that your suggestion is included.

aa********
10/24/06 09:55 PM (#557)

B*****,

I couldn't agree more. Very well put!

B**** said: "I agree with most of you that the PESA system is still broken. But I threw my $99 into the hat to give them a chance to fix PESA. I've made a lot of money because of PESA and $99 is a bargain.

They have one year to fix PESA. If they don't fix it then I probably won't be here when it's time to renew next year.

The way I figure it, PESA has a lot of pressure to perform or lose the renewals. This is the first time members have been able to hold some power. We will vote with our feet if we do not get what we are supposed to get."

An*******

spo*******
10/24/06 11:57 PM (#558)

Sucinct post, B*****,

Thanks,
T*******

spo********
10/24/06 11:58 PM (#559)

Succinct post, B******,

Thanks,
T******

1bu********
10/25/06 04:14 AM (#560)

Very well said B****. However earlier in this thread it was also you who was saying PESA had 3 years to accomplish certain things, and did not do so and there was much sloppiness along the way. Okay maybe there was reasons for that, lack of funding, bickering amongst members, political maneuvering, etc.

So lets give them the benefit of the doubt and now they truly have to perform in those areas that were lacking. Jonathans post was incredible came across as someone who is sincere and very open and honest. Joe unselfishly took a minority ownership in PESA which must of ben hard for him to do but was the right thing to move the organization forward.

However with all these things said I do understand where Br*** is coming from. There are still many important unanswered questions and moral issues involved.

Is the new for profit PESA just going to open doors to anyone because they are after cash flow or is it going to remain a top seller group? Will future summits be combined with EMCTA and its members who may open their doors to anyone, thus diluting some of the summit affects such as one on one time with high lever personnel from companies in attendance?

Then there is the question regarding ownership and who elects board members and new by-laws. There are many members who put in a lot of time and effort to get this group where it is today. Even members like Br**** who may have not volunteered on a committee but have been active in posting and no doubt have a positive affect on the organization. Even active informed well spoken posters have an affect because it drives others to come here and read the forums etc. The real value in the group is in its members. So are these members getting any shares, or is it only small handful. Will PESA be run as a for profit with the intentions of making some folks big bucks or will it be run as a for profit but technically a not for big profit by distributing ownership amongst many members?

I think Br*****s and others moral issue concerns could be resolved with some answers to these questions. For example if PESA created 500 shares of stock and Joe had a 25-50 shares and the rest were spread amongst many members with 1-2 shares going to hundreds of members it would be a signal power is being spread out and profits is not the main agenda. If only a small handful holds shares it will send the opposite signal IMO, plus it will send a signal that some folks who spent hours upon hours helping PESA were only helping a small handful in many ways.

St****

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=7

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 02:08 AM,

FROM TRS:

Quote:li********
10/25/06 05:44 AM (#561)

The amount of money is not the issue. The dues could be $10 and the same issues are there.

The issue is lack of communication. Period.

For years the group has been free. There have always been serious questions asked about the lack of communication, like the financial papers, the white papers, the board minutes, etc. But, being a member of a free group makes it that much easier to accept that 'you get what you pay for'. We pay nothing and yes, we'd like answers but hey, you pay nothing, you get nothing, oh well. It's worth putting up with the crap to be able to communicate with other sellers on this board.

Now we will be paying.
The amount doesn't matter, it is still cash out of our pockets. I'm sure no one here got here by giving away money.

If I'm giving my money away then I want to know where it is going. I want to have a say in the matter. So far the BOD has done whatever they want without our imput and I see no change in that coming.

For an example (and this is only an example I am not picking on this issue), Joe hires a guy to carry a camera around the PeSA summits. He videotapes everything he feels necessary and takes lots of stills. Afterwards those stills get posted here and the video gets turned into a DVD that members have to pay $50 for. Now, we had no say in the hiring of this guy, we have no idea how much he costs, we have no idea where the $50 goes to (I imagine it is to pay the photographer but we don't know that), or if anyone actually bought those DVD's.

*I'd like to be able to say Hey, why are we paying Mr.X $xxxx. when Mr.Z only charges $xxx.?
*I'd like some say into what this guy videotapes.
Personally, if I am paying $50 for a DVD I want to see the actual meetings going on and hear what is said and not the gala events.
*I'd like some say as to whether or not we need a photographer.

In seeing some of the previous Live and Summit prep I have sometimes wondered why they are spending so much money on this or that. Okay, I'm a cheapskate, a bargain hunter, what some folks here consider cheap I think is outragious. I think some here think that if you flash enough cash around then you come across as a 'more professional' group. I don't see a need to flash if you only have to sparkle. As a dues paying member I'd like to have some say in this.

Especially if whatever the Flash is causes you to lose money like the poker game.
If someone dropped out of sponsoring the game why did we not get a post saying so and asking for any last minute sponsors?
Because no one communicates in this group.

How exactly is money going to help the BOD change how the group is run? How is money going to improve communication?

I'd like to see a restructure before dues are paid. But that won't happen.

I think Jonathan is great, just what PeSA needs. But Jonathan can only go as far as Joe lets him since Joe is the owner of this Group. He has the keys, Jonathan has to knock to get in. Ultimately, whatever Jonathan wants to do can be veto'd by Joe. And we will never know this!
Because no one communicates with us.

As far as the paid member thread that is going now, I will never post to it, paid or unpaid. It is juvenile. I do not publish when I pay my water bill, 'see how responsible I am', nor will I publish when I pay my NY Times subscription, 'see how smart I am'. I'm sure there are others like me.

When are those dues due?

Okay, I need more coffee, there was more I wanted to say but the brain went back to bed.

li*********
10/25/06 05:48 AM (#562)

Damn, I forgot to closed the italics, sorry, I know it is harder to read that way.

1bu******
10/25/06 05:52 AM (#563)

li********

Remember now that PESA is officially a dues collecting for profit org, it is less likely you will BOD minutes, and financials etc. private companies do not have to post board minutes, communicate with customers or report fincials to customers. So in essence you are not only a member, you are now a customer instead, unless of course membership = onwership as well.

St******

li*********
10/25/06 06:01 AM (#564)

But according to Jonathans post we will see more communication once they have money. Right?

No, I'm not that naive.

emo********
10/25/06 06:23 AM (#565)

li*********

You will surely see lots more communication under two circumstances:

1) Very soon, if the number of dues paying members does not pick up drastically

2) One year from now, when the $240 is due.

The rest of the time you will get bland doublespeak.

Isn't this just like the national elections? The elections are two weeks away and all those running are trying to get us to believe they are "just like us" and that they REALLY care about us. But just about anyone with any sense knows that two weeks and a day from now they will all forget everything they promised, at least for another two years (minus a little bit).

If we want transparency and accountability, then it is imperative we demand it BEFORE we pay the dues, or we will wait another year to have any chance of having it.

Br******

lar*******
10/25/06 06:25 AM (#566)

li********, this is a non issue in my opinion, and I considered it to be a statement that was meant to belittle other group members... "As far as the paid member thread that is going now, I will never post to it, paid or unpaid. It is juvenile. I do not publish when I pay my water bill, 'see how responsible I am', nor will I publish when I pay my NY Times subscription, 'see how smart I am'. I'm sure there are others like me."

Certainly, in the spirit of being a cohesive group, that was not neccessary to say. Especially as that thread, in my understanding, is running in conjunction with Br*****'s "guess how many members there will be" thread. All in fun and good spirit...

The rest of your concerns read as realistic concerns on some level to me. However, your entire post became a non issue for myself once I read your judgement of group members that are active posters on this board.

Regards,
Ha*******

li*********
10/25/06 06:34 AM (#567)

Ha*****, I'm sorry you are offended by it. It was, like all my other posts, just my opinion. I do not like any thread that wants people to give their names that they donated to something, and dues fits that category to me. If I make a donation to anything it is a private issue to me. I also see it as a belittling of the folks who haven't added their name to the list.
Everyone sees things differently which is what make groups necessary.

lar*******
10/25/06 06:36 AM (#568)

ok. Point taken li******. I appreciate that you took the time to address my response/reaction.

Definately, different views are important to create any kind of dynamic element in a group.

Ha******

emo********
10/25/06 06:54 AM (#569)

li*******

How do you see dues as a "donation"? You are purchasing a membership in a for-profit organization, and you certainly have a right to expect to receive value for those dues. If the organization in question were non-profit, I could see how you might view the dues as a donation, but of could we know that this organization is "for-profit".

Br******

li********
10/25/06 06:57 AM (#570)

Any time I give money for something that I do not get a tangible item in return for I consider it a donation. Buying a logo I won't use is not what I consider a tangible item hence my use of Donation.
__________________

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 02:09 AM,

FROM TRS:

Quote:co********
10/25/06 07:20 AM (#571)

As part of the details on the new improved PESA this had been posted -

During the past couple of weeks, we have upgraded the capabilities of our member support system. It means that new additions to the PESA discussion forum in eBay will only happen with the approval of the Membership Committee.

Is this a form of censorship ?

Maybe I am not understanding what will need approval ?

K*****

ce*********
10/25/06 07:23 AM (#572)

K******, the new "addditions" are new members. It doesn't mean each new post will need approval if that is what you were thinking!

JH

co*******
10/25/06 07:39 AM (#573)

JH

One of us are mixed-up

According to a recent post by Br******
You CAN'T become this by having no standards for admission other than QUANTITY of sales (as the old non-profit Pesa did) and you make things far worse when your new standard for admission is whether you have $99 (or $240) in hand, as I firmly believe the standard for admission of the new for-profit Pesa will soon be (and may de facto already be).

So Isn't the new PESA a pay for admission and won't they drop the easy to meet standards to bring in new members - it appears that they may not even gain 100 members from the original supposed core of 985.

It all makes me feel like the new PESA has intent to capatilize on all of the free work and former free discussions

Really only to sell more service and product to a new support niche.

K******

ce**********
10/25/06 07:56 AM (#574)

I don't know K*****, it sounds like pure speculation to me.

JH

aci*********
10/27/06 09:29 AM (#575)

Jonathan,

In light of what happened to Su*****, I think it appropriate to ask for clarification on these quotes of yours from during and after the election which seem to send conflicting messages.

During the campaign: "I did form the new organization, but the ownership is distributed similar to PESA. I do have an interest in PESA and that has not changed. The Boards of both organizations are mirrored"

After the Election: "ECMTA is a totally separate entity that was setup by me and is an extension of the consulting Ive been doing for years". "PESA was founded by Joe C and as such, he owns it."

If your statement during the campaign is correct, I probably agree that a strategic partnership with ECMTA does not conflict. However, if ECMTA is a "totally separate entity" and you are CEO of both, a conflict of interest would definitely be suspect in a strategic partnership between PESA and ECMTA, unless ECMTA were treated equal to all of Pesa's sponsors and affiliate members.

The possible conflict could be evidenced by this episode with Suzanne, with ECMTA getting preferential exposure on Pesa's web site, Ecmta claiming or forming a partnership with Pesa's sponsors, etc.

It would be helpful if this matter were addressed in your weekly update.

Please help us.

joefriday2
10/27/06 10:11 AM (#576)

There is still a major conflict with the same board members serving on PESA and on ECMTA at the same time.

Come on board, get on one train or the other. I can not trust any "deal" made between the two organizations when they have the same board members.

Ben

emo********
10/27/06 11:31 AM (#577)

"Come on board, get on one train or the other"

Right on! Especially when one organization has never made a profit and likely never will, and the other is intended to be a cash cow for its owners. And yet somehow the assets of the first was handed over lock, stock, and barrel to the second! This sure fails the smell test.

By their recent actions alone, those board members who have ownership in the new company should immediately resign (or sell their ownership in the new company). This is massive conflict of interest.

Bruce

Br******

gothamcityonline
10/28/06 12:16 PM (#578)

During the past week, we have been working to get members access to all the different forums that we have running. I believe we have solved 90% of the requests, but if any member needs any help and has not received a response, please let us know through the Contact Us form. If you sent a request on Friday, it is probably still pending, so you don't need to send another request.

The members that have updated your profile and paid dues will start seeing a new Benefits tab at the top of your Member page. This page will be live this coming week and will give you access to the PESA programs that we are rolling out. We have also added the capability for members that have mupltiple userids on eBay to generate separate PESA logos for their auction inserts.

Aside from just displaying that you are a PESA member in your listings, the logo is actually going to mean a bit more starting in 2 weeks. We are going to revamp the PESA Mall to be able to drive traffic to your items. Stage 1 will just drive traffic to eBay listings by PESA members. Now, the system to determine PESA member listings will be driven by the logo in the auctions. It will be a little clumsy to start, but its a start. Our next stage will be further integration with data feeds to provide more robust navigation to drive to more specific items/categories. We are working on some custom links for members so we can measure who drives the most traffic. The people that drive the most traffic to the PESA Mall will determine placement rank (we took a page out of Google's book).

Eventually, we plan to allow members to determine where they would like shoppers to go if they click through. We've already seen an interesting concept with a PESA member on Amazon.

We are also working on a system to allow members to cross promote each other. B**** A**** has done an early test of a program to understand issues and opportunities. We believe that we have some good ideas to implement to let PESA members find a complimentary partner(s) with a structure that can measure and compensate each party for the business. The biggest issue has always been to make sure both sides of a deal are getting rewarded. We believe we have found a good solution for the program and will keep you updated as we get closer to rollout.

As has been discussed on the threads, PESA is purely a quantitative qualified group. Aside from members showing that they are committed to an online business, PESA does not measure any qualitative aspects of members. From the conversations I've had with a number of members, one concern about a common portal/landing/Mall page is that it does not solve the problems that buyers experience on eBay. Without some quality control, problems will develop. So, PESA has decided to start developing a set of best practices for our common landing site. It is a work in progress and we will share our thoughts well before they go into practice. Almost all the ideas have been pulled from this forum, so they will ring familiar to members. These best practices are intended to be used for our common landing page, not membership criteria. I've seen some comments about membership criteria and I want to stress that PESA is not watering down or tightening its membership criteria. We are going to continue to use the same criteria that the Membership Committee developed with considerable thought.

We are reviewing every process within PESA to focus on executing efficiently for the members. We have started a financial review to finally report our financial results of the organization. We'll be able to determine the financial health of the organization as well as develop an operating budget that will match revenue with expenses. Until now, we've been focused on executing activites and just forcing the financing to work; sometimes meaning a few individuals funding those activities. Going forward, PESA will no longer allow member funding of activities. If there is a program that is desired, the idea will have to be matched with a method to pay for it. Joe and I have committed that neither I nor any other members will personally finance any future programs. They will need to funded by PESA, the organization. While it sounds basic, it's easier said than done. As we develop our operating budget, we will be including costs for rewarding members that fill key roles in PESA. Over the next few weeks, the Board will be contacting volunteers to discuss ongoing, formal support of PESA day-to-day operations. The Board is focused on establishing PESA's operations and the Board is not considering a stipend for Board members until all the operations of PESA of fully funded.

ECMTA is a separate organization from PESA and although PESA members have access to it, no money has changed hands or will change hands without a public RFP for services rendered.

I know that we still have some open issues in PESA, but members should realize that things are progressing well and PESA is working to establish a formalized operation to benefit its members. You should expect to see programs that create opportunities for your business.

Sincerely,

Jonathan

lo*********
10/28/06 12:48 PM (#579)

Thanks Jonathan! Sounds like all is moving in a great direction! Glad to be a member of Pesa! Thanks!

Ch*******

all********
10/28/06 12:51 PM (#580)

Thank you for the update.

Z********

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 02:11 AM,

Quote:bi*********
10/28/06 01:22 PM (#581)

Jonathan thank you very much for the update. I think the BOD is doing fantastic this is going to make this organization even better
Gl******

en*********
10/28/06 02:05 PM (#582)

Jonathan:

I appreciate the update and have the following requests:

1. Would you please address Jo**** S******'s question's in Post 575?

2. As you know there is a thread on proposed new by-laws so would you be so kind as to let us know what the BOD view is on this issue?

Regards,

Da*******

en*********
10/28/06 02:06 PM (#583)

Jonthan:

QUOTE: "I know that we still have some open issues in PESA, but members should realize that things are progressing well and PESA is working to establish a formalized operation to benefit its members. You should expect to see programs that create opportunities for your business."

I have no doubt that you guy's are working hard on great member programs and benefits but PeSA is on the verge of FALLING APART. It seems evident to me that we may be days away from many exceptional, long term members leaving PeSA. Although there are many disagreements or issues within PeSA they are rarely serious enough to cause a splintering of our group. IMO though, there is ONE CURRENT ISSUE that, if resolved, will keep PeSA together and make our organization stronger. It is the issue of ownership and status. IMO PeSA WILL NOT WORK if it is owned by a handful of members. Please tell me what is wrong with PeSA being a "not for profit" trade association? If you (or anyone else within PeSA) is against this, WHY? I try to think of myself as an honest, logical thinking individual so when I see members asking for PeSA to remain as a not-for-profit and being shot down by other members and ignored by the BOD, I ask myself: WHY? The folks that are asking for PeSA to be officially a not-for-profit trade organization surely can't be doing this with the intent to personally benefit or they wouldn't be asking for this? I DO believe you 100% when you say that PeSA has been a poor financial performer to date however I also believe that PeSA WILL accomplish great things in the future and possibly, under current structure, certain members will stand to significantly benefit from PeSA's success. Do you think PeSA WILL accomplish great things in the future? Do you agree that it is POSSIBLE that significant sums of money could eventually be generated from PeSA operations? Do YOU think that PeSA should be a "not-for-profit" organization? If not, WHY?

The questions above are honest questions; I have no agenda, I have not been discussing this with other members, I am not part of any mutiny, and my only reason for making this post/asking these questions is 100% to do with my passion for PeSA, and how sad I would be if the group separates.

I've tried to pretty much stay out of the dog-fight that has been raging this past couple of weeks but I did want to let you know that the above issues are very much on my mind and that because of that I have NOT yet decided if I will remain a part of this group. Please respond.

Sincerely,

Da**** L***
Ri******** W******

emo********
10/28/06 02:26 PM (#584)

Da********

Exceptional post from an obvious non-partial member. I agree that the clarification of the ownership and the "not-for-profit" nature IS the key issue here. If it is satisfactorally resovlved in the next month, I, and likely other members, will stay on, and give the BOD the year they want to resolve all the other issues.

I wonder if your post will receive the same basic response my similar posts have received: Scorn from some members, vocal support from a handful, silent support from a large number, and deafening silence on this issue from the BOD.

Br********

1bu*******
10/28/06 02:35 PM (#585)

Da*****

Thanks for posting that as well. I have yet to pay my $99 dues as well and you summed up the reason quite well why I am still on the fence. I very much want to remain a member of a united PESA, but those issues are of utmost importance. The one other issue is PESA's relationship with EMCTA. Even if PESA was a not for profit with mayny owner, this still needs to be defined.

St*******

joefriday2
10/28/06 04:17 PM (#586)

Jonathan,

Before you build any more PESA floors or wings, you need to get the foundation fixed.

Once you have a solid foundation, then you can start building again.

The foundation is the most important building component. Without a strong foundation, you are doomed to structural failure.

Ben

oh********
10/28/06 04:57 PM (#587)

Jonathan,

Thanks for the update - but I am still waiting for some response to my application for membership that I submitted on the PeSA site almost three weeks ago - even though I've been a member since the first meeting in New York.

I'm concerned because I have been trying intermittently over a span of about two years to gain access to our site and even though I've made several posts asking for a response, each post has been consistently ignored.

Is it being "processed"? Should I re-submit everything, again, (I think this is the 4th of 5th time). Or what?

Jonathan, Please respond to this post.

J*******

phone number and email address removed

sho*********
10/28/06 08:35 PM (#588)

Da******

Excellent post!
I agree 100% with what you have said.

Ra******

sho********
10/28/06 08:36 PM (#589)

I should have mentioned I also agree with the points made by St****, Br**** & Ben.

Ra*******

tig******
10/29/06 01:14 AM (#590)

Can we go back to the start for a moment and look at the original post from the Board of directors? There were a number of claims and issues that got obscured by the dues bombshell.

1 everyone applauded the quality of the presentations

Did anyone take note of the most salient news, important points, advice and so on? Those of us who did not attend - the vast majority of the membership - shouldn't be shut out from this knowledge.

2 Many people have made suggestions on how PeSA can continue to improve

What were these suggestions?

are working on programs with those companies to benefit your business (from Amazon and Google)

What are the programs PeSA is working on with them?

So what are the next steps for PeSA?

Was this question answered later, beyond "forging new relationships?" With whom, and what kind of relationships?

It is our great pleasure to officially announce the E X P A N S I O N of PeSA!

There was no information here about the expansion of PeSA. Does this refer to the "partnership" with ECMTA? Or is the BOD referring to the individual members who are exploring other channels?

Over the next few weeks, we will be announcing a number of new partnerships

Anything beyond the drop-shipper special (what exactly is the special?), reduced rates for U-PIC insurance (less than the per-month flat rates?) and vista-print (what is the discount?), and Jonathan's ECMTA?

the Board is hoping to make a positive contribution to everyone's top and bottom lines as quickly as possible

What is the Board working on that will contribute to our bottom line?

PeSA Mall

In other messages it has been announced that the PeSA Mall will "drive traffic" to participating eBay listings in conjunction with the "pesamember" keyword. Since that won't happen simply from listing a banner on the Mall list, there must be some technical marketing strategy planned. Can we have the general outline - is something planned for search engine ranking, google landing pages, adwords or other methods?

Who is it that determines which eBay stores are included in the Mall, and what are the criteria? I believe it must be a delegated task for reasons I won't go into, but it becomes important if PeSA is going to be spending resources to promote those stores.

--B*****

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=7

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 02:13 AM,

Quote:li*******
11/01/06 03:57 AM (#591)

I've got to wonder where the other 3 board members are. We elected them for their strong stances and now they are mute. Makes me wonder what short hairs JC has them by to make them suddenly turn into zombies. Are they locked in the basement? Where's Joe Friday when you need him? Someone needs to investigate and find our missing elected officials.

emo*******
11/01/06 04:10 AM (#592)

"I've got to wonder where the other 3 board members are"

It is not just the turmoil within Pesa they are silent about. Have they posted AT ALL in the past two weeks? Perhaps someone should call the emergency rooms in their areas and find out if they are OK.

I know each of they are EXTREMELY busy, but if they ARE OK, perhaps they could each post a simple "I'm OK" message, so we can all stop worrying about them.

Br*******

bi*******
11/01/06 04:28 AM (#593)

Why would they? Jonathan is the one making the posts but they are signed "The PeSA Board" so they are all posting same as the election committee L***** does the official posts but those come from the whole committee
Gl******

li********
11/01/06 04:39 AM (#594)

But we elected them for their strong voices, at least I did, and now they are strangely silent. You'd think they'd at least post a 'don't worry, be happy' post to let us know that they are behind this and keeping an eye on things.

1bu*******
11/01/06 04:40 AM (#595)

Because Gl**** it would be nice to know how each one indivudually felt about the process the BOD is attemtping to lead on on. Was it unanimous or did some go against the current path and ECMTA Relationship?

More later

St*******

tra*******
11/01/06 04:42 AM (#596)

I think one of Jonathan's posts said the BOD agreed not to enter into this fray individually, rather letting Jonathan post the official updates. I think they are sufficiently strong-minded individuals (whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant) that if they flatly disagreed with Jonathan's posts that we'd hear about it.

What kind of leash could Jonathan put them on? Do it my way or you will no longer get to volunteer tons of your time w/o compensation? That doesn't seem like a very big threat to me.

T******

1bu*********
11/01/06 04:46 AM (#597)

T*****

Agreed if one was opposed to the plan and felt strongly ECMTA was a conflict of interest or felt these group of folks did have the right to take ownership of PESA from away from its members the ywould have sopke up and most likely resigned. So we have to assume they are in this together.

St*******

tra*********
11/01/06 05:05 AM (#598)

Jonathan promised nearly weekly updates and, so far, has lived up to that commitment. Do I think that means he is going to ultimately answer everyone's individual questions? No ... but that would be damn near impossible, considering the number of questions people have asked.

Now, I understand the questions YOU think are most important and I understand that a number of other folks want those answers, too, but I honestly have no feeling one way or the other about 1) the likelihood of you ever getting an answer to them or 2) the actual answers.

Jonathan appears to have a plan that he is executing against. I say give him the time to show some results. From my perspective, I have only seen this group make progress on the following things in the past 6 mos: an awesome summit and the very recent changes (updating the membership roster, tracking membership sales stats, refreshing pesa's web site, creating a benefits section, providing weekly updates of plans/progress). I recognize there are a lot of other things people would like to see, but this is at least a start, IMO.

Still drinking the kool-aid,

T******

1bu********
11/01/06 05:14 AM (#599)

T*******

I spoke with two board members via telephone in the past week including Jonathan. These calls lasted 60-90 minutes each easily. While I did not get all the answers or the entire plan, I have a lot more insight on the plan.

More later.

St******

lo********
11/01/06 05:43 AM (#600)

Can u elaborate?
__________________

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=7

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 04:37 PM,

From TRS:

Quote:1bu*********
11/01/06 06:00 AM (#601)

Yes hopefully later. Getting my thoughts together, plus getting orders out

St********

aa**********
11/01/06 06:16 AM (#602)

That's fantastic, St*******. Glad you finally picked up the phone and got some of the answers you were looking for. Had someone done this early in this process, a lot of this maybe could have been mitigated. Look forward to you sharing your thoughts.

An*******

co*******
11/01/06 07:48 AM (#603)

Yes St***** - you seemed to have so many objections. Yet now that you know what you know you don't have the time to share it ? Come on what is up with the secrets ?

emo*******
11/01/06 07:55 AM (#604)

Consider this kind of like a "coming attractions" preview trailer in the theater. They never give away the major plot twists there, and I imagine that is why St****** is teasing us with little bits of info.

I have faith he will post a lot more, and I bet he will post in a more timely fashion than our fearless leaders.

Since $99 is not riding on this, I am willing to give him some time (or at least a few more hours)!

Br******

1bu*******
11/01/06 08:20 AM (#605)

co********

I cannot post 3-4 hours of phone conversations in a few sentences. I am not witholding info, just want to make sure my post when it comes is as complete as can be.

I have tasks associated with my business that must be done 1st before I can get to writing such an extensive post.

St*****

co*******
11/01/06 08:26 AM (#606)

St******* you mean you do work ? It must be difficult not having 12 guys working for you.

Just give me a reason to belive - throw me a bone out here. I'll cough up the $99 - rebuild my faith in PESA - Please !

K*******

1bu*******
11/01/06 08:40 AM (#607)

K***** you will cough up $99 for me to post? email address removed = my paypal address and thanks K****

co*********
11/01/06 08:56 AM (#608)

St******* -

I am ready to join when you and Br****** do !

I am glad you got on the phone with somebody that konws what is going on - I left a msg. that Joe should call up some of the old guard. - I do consider you and Br***** the sort of optimistic skeptics I would follow.

K*******

1bu********
11/01/06 10:50 AM (#609)

Hey everyone

As stated earlier I had had several phone conversations with 2 BOD members including Jonathan over the course of the past week. I know I had stated I would share some details of these conversations, but before doing so I would have to have Jonathans blessing before doing so.

The reason I say this is because I after giving this some thought it would not be appropriate for me to post details of private phone conversations without permission from the other parties involved. I hope you all can respect this.

I can tell you we exchanged views and thoughts of what has been going on and their future plans. I heard their perspective on things and they heard mine. Also with the recent polls I think it gives them a clear gauge of the member sentiment regarding these issues.

I would hope we will hear from Jonathan in the coming days with more details so everyone can make informed decisions about the future.

Respectfully

St******

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 04:39 PM,

From TRS:

Quote:Oh PLEASE! You've gotta be freaking kidding me! This is just what you complain about them doing!!!

ac**********
11/01/06 02:06 PM (#610)

Jonathan,

Does Pesa have an eBay affiliate commission junction account?

Will all the affiliate revenues generated through the links to eBay in Pesa Mall (or elsewhere on Pesa) be given to Pesa?

How about the revenues collected from the other affiliate accounts to non eBay web sites. Will these revenues go directly to Pesa?

regards,
j*********
__________________
lar*********
11/01/06 05:23 PM (#611)

St******, did the conversation cause you to consider joining PeSA as a dues paying member? Or are you still waiting for further information or action?

Ha********

1bu*********
11/02/06 04:44 AM (#612)

St****, did the conversation cause you to consider joining PeSA as a dues paying member? Or are you still waiting for further information or action?

Ha*******

No would be the answer to your question, and I believe I have all the info required. I have no intentions to pay FEES as I call them as FEES is what one pays when paying for someones services. I do not call these dues.

Now I would guess it is still possible the BOD re-consider what I call mis-informed or mis-calculated direction of PESA and re-evaluate the conflicts of interest that exist with the relationship they entered into with ECMTA

At this point I think it would only be fair for me to allow Jonathan a few days to inform membership of the entire plan so members too can make a better informed decision. Based on the recent polls it appears most members would not have paid their FEES if they were made aware of the entire money making plan.

If more information is not forthcoming soon by the BOD, I will elaborate more in the near future.

St*****

go******
11/02/06 06:21 AM (#613)

Hi J****** (ac******)
We have been working on a private affiliate program for only PeSA members. Unlike the Commission Junction program ($5000 to $10000 average setup fee)this will be much more affordable. Our program is presently in Beta Test and we some forward looking members.
If you would like to join that Beta test, send me an email at email address removed and we can discuss further.
B***** A*********

co******
11/02/06 06:37 AM (#614)

St*******

I will look foward to your next post.

K********

bo*******
11/02/06 09:43 AM (#615)

We all will. Since we know full well that the silence for "our elected representatives" will be overwhelming.

emo*********
11/02/06 09:50 AM (#616)

B*******

Not necessarily! We may get one or more multi-thousand word posts which say little and answer less.

Maybe we short shorten their terms to a month, and then we would hear from them all the time.

Br*******

emo*********
11/02/06 09:50 AM (#617)

"short shorten" = "should shorten"

ac*********
11/02/06 11:08 AM (#618)

B*****,

Thanks for the info. I am probably interested in your 'Pesa Partner' affiliate program. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to find out more about your system in SF. It wasn't because of my lack of interest. It was more of a matter of time and priority.

I understand your system is totally unrelated to Pesa itself and is not what Jonathan is building for the links to eBay from the Pesa Mall. Is that correct?

My questions concerns Pesa Mall and the affiliate revenue generated by the links to eBay listings. Ebay's affiliate program now allows sellers to link to their own auctions and is probably unrelated to your system.

Previously, eBay did not want sellers to use the affiliate program to drive traffic to their own auctions. Both Jonathan and I were receiving thousands of $ per month from the affiliate program. Last year, both of us got kicked out because we violated that rule. However, eBay has just recently changed that rule. I am now using the new affiliate program in links from my web site to my eBay listings.

It makes sense to use affiliate information in the links from the Pesa Mall to the eBay listings. That could quickly generate a revenue stream of tens of thousands of dollars per month.

My question is will that revenue stream go to Pesa? If so, how will it be used? I would like to be comfortable it would be used for Pesa functions or something similar and not to compensate a member of the BOD or their company.

Thanks again B*****. I am looking forward to talking to you soon.

j******

Bolding Mine - TR

emo********
11/02/06 11:20 AM (#619)

J******

Would you mind telling me how I can join the new affiliate program? A high percentage of my buyers enter from my site, and I would love to sign up.

Thanks either way.

Br*****

je*******
11/02/06 11:26 AM (#620)

Br******,

A link to the affiliate program can be found at the bottom of the eBay home page.

AC

http://therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6129&page=7
__________________

BellisimaJ. · 11-11-2006, 04:40 PM,

Quote:tra******
11/02/06 11:56 AM (#621)

"However, eBay has just recently changed that rule. I am now using the new affiliate program in links from my web site to my eBay listings."

Ts&Cs on-line still say that's against the rules. Is this a recent change, implying the Ts&Cs are not yet updated?

"Nor may You use affiliate links to promote your own eBay listings or eBay Store, those of your Sub-Publisher or those of anyone else with whom you are affiliated."

http://tinyurl.com/ymyu4m

T******

ac***********
11/02/06 12:05 PM (#622)

The new affiliate program is still in the beta (testing) stage. From what I understand, it should be available site wide int eh near future.

tra********
11/02/06 12:06 PM (#623)

Very cool.

Thanks!

emo**********
11/02/06 12:06 PM (#624)

Thanks AC, Do you have na ABSOLUTE answer to T*****'s concern? I would hate to run into the the Kafkaesque eBay "guilty until proven innocent" system over this.

Br*******

je*********
11/02/06 12:35 PM (#625)

No Br*****...just trying to help with a link. I think J**** St****'s post #622 indicates the apparent discrepancy.

AC

emo******
11/02/06 12:41 PM (#626)

Thanks AC. I signed up. I guess I will find out "the hard way" if it has NOT been truly changed.

But either way, thanks very much for helping.

Br*******

lan**********
11/02/06 02:03 PM (#627)

I have seen lots of sellers 'traffic driving' websites using affiliate links to their eBay auctions?

Maybe the domain(s) is/are owned by a 'relative' or company ?

Ed******

gothamcityonline
11/04/06 09:36 AM (#628)

I was hoping to be able to post some more feature upgrades we've made to the tools of PESA, however, in catching up on the discussion forum and from the calls I've had with PESA members, this arena isn't conducive to that type of news.

I will address some of the political stuff that has been going on here. For those that are hoping to improve your business, I have to apologize, but none of this post will make a bit of difference to your business.

I have been at every event PESA has hosted and I've enjoyed meeting many members. I have done my best to answer any questions members had, and I still do. However, I am not a fan of a chat board or email to handle complex issues. The tone and level of detail does not carry through like a conversation. So, I called a number of members this week, including St**** to discuss some of the questions out there. By the way, I called St****, not the other way around. In the end, St******* did appreciate the call and said that he was going to pay his dues and stay in PESA. It was interesting to note how that changed back here in the chat board. St****** has not contacted me again to see if he could repeat what we talked about, but I have no problem with him sharing the details of our conversation. Although, repeating a conversation always results in some loss in translation. But, I am always glad to speak to members about issues and share some of the debate the Board has on them.

Bylaws - PESA formed a corp with a basic set of bylaws that we planned to modify as we grew and pursued non-profit status. There was no purposeful misleading on going non-profit. As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, the cost to PESA and the restrictions on PESA were not worth non-profit status. Also, since PESA is a money losing venture, there is no benefit for non-profit status. So, from PESA's perspective, what did non-profit status gain us? We would have had substantial legal costs to setup, we would have had ongoing legal and compliance costs for reporting, and we would have received no tax benefit since the organization loses money. So why spend resources to continue to pursue it? We chose not to and I announced it to members. For those that believe that you can get non-profit status for $950 in legal work, you are mistaken. You can have the forms filed for that cost, but any legitimate counsel is going to have to spend time to understand the organization and we would have to document all our activities for the past 24 months and forecast our activities for the next 36 months. Lawyers bill by the hour, so I'll let you calculate how much it will really cost. Its substantial. For now, we are leaving the bylaws as is and focusing on things that can help improve your business. I have not found any member that says that the PESA bylaws have hurt their business. However, I constantly hear from members about the need to have other sales channels, or how eBay fraud is hurting their ASPs, or how shipping costs keep going up. We are working on those issues which we think will have the most immediate benefit for the members. For those members that disagree with that priority, I'm sorry to say that PESA is not the place for them. I am interested in helping members that are trying to make the right decisions for their businesses, not those that enjoy political bickering.

PESA Ownership - As I said earlier, Joe will be distributing the majority of ownership in PESA to members. If I had ownership numbers, I would have already told those members. But the process is not complete yet. I said this in my earlier post. Also, I warned people that PESA is not a good investment vehicle and they should not expect that it will generate any income for them. Whether Joe owns it or the members own it, PESA just does not make money. The Board has never gotten paid by PESA either. PESA is structured as a C Corp, so it is a very inefficient structure if anyone planned distributions. The Board does not have any intention of making income distributions. As a matter of fact, Joe and I have funded PESA's shortfalls. It is common knowledge among members that when PESA's bills need to be paid, anything short from sponsorship is paid by noblespirit or gothamcityonline. This past event, even some other members floated some expenses. That is not right and I plan to change that. I wish that the handful of members that are quick to accuse the Board of enriching themselves would have been so vocal about how unfair it was for them to advance tens of thousands of dollars to the organization just to make sure things worked. The Board enriching themselves couldn't be further from the truth and anyone that thinks that is happening is seriously detached from the workings of PESA. We are updating our financials, but it will not show that PESA has much in the way of assets, which is one of the reasons we are charging dues. Please feel free to speak to any of the members that have been involved in our events. They'll be glad to share how much it costs to host an event and also how generous our sponsors have been.

Dues - We are charging nominal dues to provide some capital to operate PESA and fund activities. Its clear that we need to improve things, and PESA should have financial resources to do that, but if members are not willing to support the organization, what's the point? PESA started with zero resources and some members are demanding that PESA deliver some things before they are willing to hand over resources to pay for those things. It seems like there is problem with that equation. Like I said in my first post, the $99 dues offer will be valid through November 30, however, if you have not paid your dues yet, you will no longer be an active member in PESA. If you chose to pay your dues at some time in the future, you will be re-activated. If you pay before Nov 30, its only $99, after Nov 30, it will be full price. Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion.

Conflict of interest - Its true that I have another venture called the ECMTA, but at no time has any assets transferred from PESA to ECMTA nor have any sponsor transactions occurred that bypassed or excluded PESA. THere have been no shady dealings. I have funded ECMTA out of my pocket and no one else has given money to that business. Its true that ECMTA has been added as a PESA partner, but if any other sponsor is interested in offering a special service or membership, I will absolutely give them placement on our website. Remember, I am not asking for any money from PESA members. I am not trying to sell you some membership - it is free. In the next couple of weeks, there will be some benefits that PESA could never offer. If it would resolve any conflict, I would be willing to withdraw the free membership offer to PESA members and I'll contribute some money to PESA as a sponsor. I think it would be a less efficient deal for members.

In the three years I have been involved in PESA, I hope that members have seen that I have tried to set things up to benefit them, not me. It certainly isn't about the money for me; and its certainly not about the power or politics. I believe there is an opportunity to work together to raise the level of everybody's business. That is my mission. Nothing else.

Conduct of Members - This chat board is the worst I've ever seen it and that sentiment has been reiterated by alot of members, both sellers and non-sellers. Some of the behavior by members is outright embarassing, but like a car accident, some members enjoy the scene. If a member has a serious concern, I would suggest that they speak to a Committee member involved in the issue or speak with a Board member. The Board is willing to speak to members about issues and will share their perspective on why something was or was not done. Many of the items on the chat boards are based on a very warped context and are not reflecting the actual situation. I am trying to address the issues, but it is very challenging when those posts get twisted and threads hijacked. It is important to remember that the members on the Board were elected by the members. They are representing the interest of the members and it is a shame that a handful of members that were not willing to serve on the Board or were not chosen by the members to represent them have created a political storm that have pushed away some of the participants that are important to the Group. You, the members, need to let the people you voted to represent you work for the benefit of PESA. They are doing that.

The Board knew that the membership of PESA would decline once we removed the non-active participants and started to charge dues. Its no surprise. We believe that a PESA with 250 active members is better positioned than a Group with 1000 members, some of whom assign no value to their membership. So far, we have 150 people that have paid their dues and another 120 people have indicated that they intend to. In the next few days, some members will need to make a decision. It doesn't seem like members are concerned about the price. The real question is, does being a part of PESA add any value to your business. If the answer is no, that's fair. However, if you are making your decision based on politics of PESA, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Sincerely,

Jonathan

go**********
11/04/06 09:48 AM (#629)

Amen Jonathan.....spoken like the true leader I believe you are.
Best wishes for the success of all our businesses.
b**** a******

lar********
11/04/06 09:54 AM (#630)

Jonathan, thank you so much for posting addressing the current climate within PeSA.

I appreciate this post VERY much and look foreward to seeing what unfolds within PeSA as it moves foreward.

Ha*******