Wagglepop 2: Deja Vu as Auction Site That Left Sellers Stranded Reopens

[amy]

WP's wonderful "Bulk Lister" ...  I tried and gave up, because it took me just as long to "tweek" it for each of my listings than to list each item from scratch.

My experience with Excel based bulk listers (eBid's old bulklister) is the same.  It's faster to list manually if the site has a "sell similar" feature than it is to use the bulklist spreadsheet. .csv based spreadsheet bulklisters (iOffer, LiveDeal, the late Amazon Auctions, ZenCart/osC's Easy Populate, etc) are much easier to use and faster than Excel based ones.

[Designers Bargains]

Seems somebody's been spending a lot of time circling the wagons for a grand cheerleader fest:

http://www.appscout.com/2..._looks_like_ebay_work.php

You guys really should check this thread. This is how one cheerleader casually dismissed the untimely demise of WP1, when the issue was brought up.

a bunch of sellers who apparently didn't have the logic to see that new things always have tweaks that need to be worked out- instead got p***ed and drove the man to shut up shop

I think someone who was around for Ray's eruption should go over and clue them in on how it REALLY happened.

[bargainbloodhound]

a bunch of sellers who apparently didn't have the logic to see that new things always have tweaks that need to be worked out-

WP1 suffered from 2-5 minute page loads because Ray took Matt's moronic bad advice and used Microsoft Access as a database.  The problem was hardly a "tweak that needed to be worked out" or a glitch--the only solution was to shut the site down and start over with a new software platform because the site Ray launched couldn't even handle 10,000 listings and no amount of "tweaking" would have fixed it.  Sellers were right to be pissed after Ray had spent months promising far more and then didn't deliver.  His excuses for the abrupt shutdown of "emotional distress", "trolls", "death threats", "sh.it in the mail" were just a cover for the extreme boinkup he made when he launched a site that would never have been able to grow beyond 10,000 listings due to the software platform he stupidly chose.

[sneakymagenta]

This proves that sellers who don't LIST anything don't get anywhere in this business! DUH!!

Listing doesn't guarantee success.

Floor Guy listed 19,000 on WP and hasn't sold anything in 12 months.
HiNoBidder Admin Mr Piddles listed 7,100 on HB and hasn't sold anything in 18 months.

Are there bidding wars here at Wagglepop?

 

(thank god I was wearing pee pee no nos when I read that quote)

a bunch of sellers who apparently didn't have the logic to see that new things always have tweaks that need to be worked out-

Hi Ray 

[sneakymagenta]

1. Store count down 10 today

2. Ray's recent losses on Ebay have prompted another whine session:

wagglepopCC2   13 Mar 2008 18:38       


Hello Wagglepop Members,

As many of you know (and as I alluded to in a previous "lunch" post), my meeting with ownership about the future direction of Wagglepop based on our past performance history was conducted earlier this past week.

I will be sponsoring a Pizza Lunch Meeting tomorrow (Friday 3/14) at 12 noon EST for open discussion with membership about this meeting and to discuss the ways we are preparing to proceed and evolve the site to reflect the realities acknowledged as a result of it.

I have been issued a direct deadline within an approximate six month timeframe to achieve new ownership participation goals. Should those goals not be achieved, we must then consider either adjusting participatory costs or realigning site services and structures to match participation.

In either case, after the fixed deadline we as a community and as a company will no longer have the fiscal subsidy from ownership to make up for monthly operating losses so we must all work harder than ever to fulfill the vision that made and continues to make Wagglepop possible.

Our dedicated long-term membership (and many of our newest members) have done an incredible job of creating and supporting an efficient and well grounded marketplace, but unfortunately those who would leave after 30-60-90 days (a.k.a the "hit and run" crowd) have outnumbered the dedicated core by over 15-to-1.

It is a shocking reality that makes many things more apparent to us than ever before regarding the entire vision of Wagglepop as designed and presented. Had everyone stayed that signed up, we would have near 5,000 Stores and about 3.5 million listings.

The more listings, the more buyers. The more buyers, the more sales - which in turn attracts more sellers, and the marketplace dynamic begins to grow and feed off the activity.

Today, we have about 280 Stores and 100,000 listings, with many of the "30-60-90" day crowd from the last eBay fee hike insipred influx dwindling daily.

If we are to become (or more rightly, stay) a smaller speciality site, then we will work to become the very best one there is, but if we are to even consider being something bigger than that, the online selling community has just six months left under ownership support to show that before large changes would need to be considered in earnest.

Wagglepop was designed for about 3,000 Stores, with projections of over 5,000 at this time in our lifespan. Revenue from just 280 "or so" has put a strain on the financial structures that built and support Wagglepop and severely limited not only our operational needs but more importantly our ability to market and advertise Wagglepop for growth to the point of paralysis.

I think the firm deadline is a "good thing", in that we will be better able to support Wagglepop as what it shows itself to us as a company to be - either an "up and coming" player in the online auction arena for direct competition with eBay, or rather a powerful feature-rich small specialty site to join the other existing small specialty sites.

Either one should prove itself to be an effective alternative for those that would like to use Wagglepop, and under a structure that ownership can continue to support within participatory revenues for many years to come.

I would like to thank ownership publicly for the additional timeline to achieve the goals I will discuss tomorrow that would support the original vision of what Wagglepop represents and can be to all that would benefit from it.

Had the online selling community as a whole embraced the original founding Wagglepop opportunity and concept, I think the results would have made a serious mark in the online auction world with many being quite surprised at what a dedicated support of a single alternative site backed by a dedicated ownership could achieve.

It seems not to be, though ownership has been incredibly patient and financially supportive of the notion (perhaps to a fault) and we now must act accordingly to be able to offer Wagglepop not as it would be, but as it is.

I think we have everything we need as a community to support what we feel strongly is the most powerful feature-laden alternative auction site there is online once we come to that crossroad in six months and have a final path chosen that determines our ultimate destiny together.

I will have the official thread open Friday at 12 noon for announcements and then membership discussion.

Andrew P.
WP

Andrew's title is Vice President:

Does this mean that RAY is no longer an owner of Wagglepop?

Ownership is unchanged since the inception of Wagglepop with myself as the lone addition serving as Vice President within the corporate structure since March 15, 2006.

AP

New seller's response to the monthly give us money whine memo:

I was just a little intimidated by this post. I have a full-time job and have been working every evening and most of the weekends trying to build up a store. ......When you don't have a clue what you are doing, everything takes longer :-)

While I totally understand that revenues have to come from somewhere to support the "machinery" of an online auction site, I am now fearful that I am "spinning my wheels". I have such faith in Wagglepop, and I am personally willing to wait for the buyers to discover us. I just don't want to feel that, while I am building and waiting, Wagglepop ownership is waffling.

I am going back to listing now.....but I'm not as excited about it as I was before

Wagglepop exists for one reason and one reason only - to help online buyers and sellers make a better experience built on fairness and trust.

I don't think it is appropriate to characterize ownership as "waffling" after they have invested tens of thousands of dollars of their own money to build Wagglepop then additional tens of thousands of dollars to operate at a loss for 22 consecutive months.

That kind of support and dedication to others on the part of ownership I find personally to be highly commendable and should be applauded if anything.

Their dedication, in fiscal terms, has gone unrewarded to say the least and I think a simple directive from ownership to demand the site start reflecting participation is both fair and long overdue.

The money available to help support Wagglepop through our infancy into self reliance simply cannot exist as a "bottomless pit", particularly in the face of participation at less than 10% of projections, with over $50,000 in delinquent accounts in collection.

As a company we have waited and waited and waited for the influx of dedicated sellers that never seems to come, or comes and never pays or lasts.

That needs to be addressed for the good of all dedicated membership.

AP

[sneakymagenta]

with over $50,000 in delinquent accounts in collection.

$50,000/$9.95=5,000 sellers turned over for collection?

[scampy7]

From WP's #1 Cheerleader:

To the owner of Wagglepop (if you're reading this), I want you to know on a personal level that I deeply and sincerely appreciate every dollar, every hour of time, and every piece of your heart that you have invested to create Wagglepop for us and to keep it going as strong as possible given the circumstances.

Bonnie, if I could offer you some encouragement; I know that this thread must feel like a harsh dose of reality given that you are just now getting started and working hard to establish your roots here. But if you continue to do all of the right things and just keep putting one foot in front of the other, your business here WILL be successful regardless of the decisions that any of the sellers around you may choose to make. Whether Wagglepop grows significantly or remains small, individual sellers here can and do thrive.

[Designers Bargains]

OMG!

I have been issued a direct deadline within an approximate six month timeframe to achieve new ownership participation goals. Should those goals not be achieved, we must then consider either adjusting participatory costs or realigning site services and structures to match participation.

Translation: "Management" is pulling the plug if WP is not solvent in 6 months.

If I were a Pooper I'd be heading for the hills with that announcement. It would be like trying to stay afloat on a melting iceberg with advanced global warming.

And what's all this business of a "specialty site." There's not a damn thing "special" about WP, apart from the fact that it has nothing to offer buyers and sellers have left in droves because it is owned by a boinktard. My guess is it will be just as "special" in that regard 6 months from now as it is today.

Wagglepop exists for one reason and one reason only - to help online buyers and sellers make a better experience built on fairness and trust

That's the joke of the century. If, in fact, WP exists for that reason, then it has failed MISERABLY in just about every way possible. Ask the hundreds of buyers and sellers who left to the tune of 15 to 1 how much they trust WP. Oh, wait, that's one more thing that's "special" about WP: the abysmal attrition rate of membership.

Revenue from just 280 "or so" has put a strain on the financial structures that built and support Wagglepop and severely limited not only our operational needs but more importantly our ability to market and advertise Wagglepop for growth to the point of paralysis.

Oh, give me a break! There was no marketing or advertising when the store count was near 1,000 with many showcase and feature stores, so don't use the piss-poor "participation" levels now as an excuse.

The more listings, the more buyers. The more buyers, the more sales - which in turn attracts more sellers, and the marketplace dynamic begins to grow and feed off the activity.

As Sneaky said, if this were true, the floor mat guy, with his 19,200+ listings should be selling like crazy. Yet, after 10 months -- NADA.

Today, we have about 280 Stores and 100,000 listings, with many of the "30-60-90" day crowd from the last eBay fee hike inspired influx dwindling daily.

Oh, plllleeeease again! If you're a career seller who hasn't had a a single sale after being on a site for 3 months with tons of listings -- one that charges monthly "participation" dues -- that should be enough proof that something is wrong with that picture and you're losing money. What are you supposed to do? Wait for Godot? If that isn't enough proof, then there's something wrong with YOUR business picture.

And the comment about the "fee hike inspired influx" is proof positive that Raytard relies largely on eBay's policy changes as a source of new recruits rather than anything at all that might be attractive about the site itself to entice sellers to go there. I'll bet he was the happiest guy in Poopville when eBay came out with its announcements. It's obvious he was expecting to capture a much larger group of disgrunted, desperate eBay sellers who were looking for any port in a storm. And now that the storm has subsided, he's in big trouble, as another one is probably not due for at least another year.  

I predict WP2 will be a non-entity by September 2008, if not sooner.  

[BeenThereDoneThat]

  Are there bidding wars here on WP? 

Had to run for the peepee no no's   

Bidding wars   

I was over at that site, appscout.com and I saw the head cheerleaders there tooting the WP horn. 

I can almost smell a fee raise coming over there on WP, for their small *specialty* site.    Specializing in Floormats? 

Boinktard will either raise the fees and FVF or he will close it down.  I think he will raise fees across the board.  Tomorrow's Pizza lunch will be very interesting.  I'm bringing popcorn and beer.

 

[sneakymagenta]

AndRay whines about future deadbeats

There will be no "throwing in of the towel" under any participation scenario.

The May boycott influx you refer to simply will repeat an old dynamic:

1. Lots of new sellers
2. Sellers stay 30-60-90 days
3. 90% of sellers close accounts or are suspended for non-payment

It is exhausting as a company to try to build around that and I cannot in good conscience fault ownership for acting on that dreadful historical dynamic.

The faithful are rallying around their leader and planning a spam assault on eBay sellers

I agree that many new seller and buyers will be slinking off Ebay over the next few months... lucky for us that should happen before this 6 month grace period.

So why not use some of this info regarding Ebay's coming and current changes. Visit some stores on the E, check out their ratings, feedback, etc and send them an email with an invitation to try Wagglepop. It may just gain us some more dedicated sellers (and buyers too!) ...

Public service message
You may forward unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) to the FTC spam@uce.gov

[mandy]

90% of sellers close accounts or are suspended for non-payment

more than 50,000 stores have been registered since it opened and nearly 34,000 are still open

http://www.auctionbytes.c.../abu/y208/m03/abu0210/s03

ecrater: 68% still open after 3 1/2 years
WP: 10% still open after 1 3/4  years.   

I cannot in good conscience fault ownership

68% retention rate vs 10%.

[Designers Bargains]

Visit some stores on the E, check out their ratings, feedback, etc and send them an email with an invitation to try Wagglepop. It may just gain us some more dedicated sellers (and buyers too!) ...

And why not offer then a copy of the "Watchtower" while you're at it? If this isn't evangelical cult tactics, tell me what is!

[bargainbloodhound]

Today, we have about 280 Stores and 100,000 listings

You should alert the engineering team that your software's counter is malfunctioning...85,216
http://www.wagglepop.com/perl/auction/catlisting