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Anita · 10-01-2006, 03:03 PM,

I hear and understand what all of you are saying about hobby sellers. I really do. I just feel the ocasional need to defend SOME hobby sellers or explain where my head was at, at the time.

While I am rambling, I also push Amazon so much because not everyone wants to have their own website. I would think about it and then change my mind... and then think about it again and change my mind again. Some people want to be hobby sellers and not have a full blown online business.

Anita · 10-01-2006, 03:06 PM,

[quote author=cranky_hippie link=topic=5294.msg25779#msg25779 date=1159714429]

Quote:I'm talking more about the people that go the whole year, then realize they never made a profit.

Looking at the SB, there are a lot of those...who call themselves professional sellers, NOT hobbyists. :o
[/quote]

I was a hobbyist, but I also felt I was MUCH more professional then some of the "professionals." That is another thing that bothered me so much about eBay... I'm trying to run my hobby professionally and eBay wasn't doing their part. Their screwups made me look bad. I am capable of taking responsibility for what I screw up... but not eBay's!

xppman · 10-01-2006, 04:12 PM,

In the spirit of the last few post it is easy to
SEE now why eBay has made some of the moves they have over the last few years.

As ebay exploded not so long ago everybody jumped on the band wagon.
The curious buyers who were hooked up to the net via AOL and other dial ups and
the people who saw this (would be full time sellers) as an opportunity to truly change their life styles
and become something they always wanted to be. Financially independent.

I don't know about the rest of you but I was even looked upon as a hobby seller (business)
by family members when I had set up my first business some 15 years ago building decks,
Installing vinyl siding and mobile home shirting and doing remod work.

I can remember even like five years into the business and making money hand over fist
in the light construction and re model industry that my mom would see me and tell me
about this job opening and that opening with a company. It got to the point I had
to actually shove hundreds of dollars of cold hard cash right in her face and say.
MOM I HAVE A JOB I PAY MY BILLS AND MOM YOU NOTICE THE BABY OF
THE FAMILY IS THE ONLY ONE YOU HAVEN'T HAD TO MAX
YOUR CREDIT OUT WITH TO KEEP THEM AFLOAT.

Well she and other family members finally realized that I made it.
That I was a true free spirited independent small business owner.

Oh but it didn't end their. When the light construction industry in my area began to fall flat
as more competition (low ball hobby guy) came on the scene prices began to
drop and buyers began to demand more services (products) for less.
(every displaced family guy with a small truck that moved into our area who was
run out of south Florida because of hurricane Andrew was looking for work)

People like me who had a jump on the new comers had one of two thing we could do:
1) Drop our prices for deck packages and other services
or
2) Stand firm and let the new comers (low ball hobby builders) run out of money after doing charity work for their customers.

Well I decided to stand firm but realized and did get low balled SEVERAL times by these hobby dudes.
I also ended up at some of these peoples houses after Mr. Low Ball was gone to do the job right so the customer ended up paying two to three times more any how than if they would have hired me and took my initial bid / offer to do the work they requested
in the first place.

One thing is certain. We all want lower prices for products and services but their comes a time
when it is simply not cost effective to operate in a manor that has you reporting losses
year over year just to compete with hobby low ball sellers.

The point of all that was to say.
I believe Meg and team began to see this too.
I also believe that their FIRST instinct when eBay exploded was to sit back and just count the cash.
(They did that for a time you know)

Then I believe they saw the trend start to slip.
They saw traffic numbers begin to fall and sell through begin to decrease.
Again first instinct was to let the market work it out and they began to see price wars and
probably were giving high five's to each other for a short time as they thought the market was
going to take care of the problem of falling traffic with lower prices after all.

Then the other shoe dropped.
Not only did some lower their prices to unsustainable levels but all of a sudden everyone
was jumping in to sell at the same time.
So OK Meg and team say good. We have more sellers so more fees... great it will all work out after all.

They were wrong and as of the last few years the indicators do indeed show they realized they were wrong.
They decided then a few years back to change course to try and slow the growth of penny sellers and
low ball hobby sellers.
So what did they do?
A) Make it harder to list (that will shake some of them out) didn't work...
B) Raise the up front fees and start charging for add ons. That didn't work either...
C) Start screwing with the categories, surly people will get pissed enough and the low ballers will leave.
(That started to have an effect but was also hurting the sellers who did react to
low ballers and started dropping their prices to compete)...
D) OK this is working full speed ahead to weed out the low ballers with more fees
and more useless changes to make the hobbyists go away. (Wrong move because it also help to drive buyers away)
E) Raise fees again, screw with the searches, and a host of other BS all designed to get the low ballers to just leave
and return the "vibrancy" to Meg's world. (Again this worked but worked on the wrong crowd)...

I know there is a lot more to add but what I'm saying is once they started to screw with the
natural flow of a free market they were doomed to failure and Oh it helps if you know that
at the same time your trying to LOOSE the low ballers, that you let your marketing
department know that CHEAP prices is NOT the message you want to send to the public.

So here we are today with the hobby sellers still selling.
The scammers scamming even more.
Use to be good sellers now having to become fee avoiders to stay afloat
And the most savvy having already moved on the BIG world of the WWW.

If eBay were to ever get this turned around (highly unlikely due to the public perception now)
they would HAVE to address the major problems they failed to when all this began to come about.

I could list what they are and the fixes, as we all DID tell them what needed to occur but they didn't listen
and there is no indication that they ever will.

The principals of this company will no doubt probably walk away with their millions
and just look back at all this one day
as just another business venture of theirs where they were successful.
Looking around their million dollar mansions will comfort and re assure them
they were indeed successful business people.

In closing this long thought. (being the usual thread killer that I am)
One thing comes to my mind. I KNOW with all my instincts these people have been
cooking their books for years now and can only hope that they will be held accountable
for their underhand manipulation of what by LAW, is supposed to be a free market.

rob · 10-01-2006, 04:50 PM,

I refer to myself as a hobby seller because I wasn't dependent on my eBay sales. I had no plans to give up my night job.
I took it all very seriously. I DID keep records and did make money.. just a few extra hundred bucks a month that came in handy at the time. Side money

I wouldn't consider you a hobby seller, you'd be classified as a part-time seller. Big difference.

r-

***regic*** · 10-01-2006, 05:18 PM,

Quote:One thing is certain. We all want lower prices for products and services but their comes a time
when it is simply not cost effective to operate in a manor that has you reporting losses
year over year just to compete with hobby low ball sellers.

Selling a commodity product and competing with low ball megacorporate sellers (GoDaddy) that have a 50%+ marketshare and an unlimited ad budget is even worse than competing with low ball hobby sellers . You have to compete on price to get customers when the competition is spending millions on advertising and the product is a commodity. We're operating on margins of $0.06-$0.43 cents per .com domain name registration depending on length of registration/volume discounts etc. after payment processing fees, ICANN fees, etc. in order to undercut them on price (GD is $8.95+$0.25 ICANN fee=$9.20, we're $8.99 including the ICANN fee).

**amy** · 10-01-2006, 06:37 PM,

[quote author=regic link=topic=5294.msg25793#msg25793 date=1159723134]

Quote:One thing is certain. We all want lower prices for products and services but their comes a time
when it is simply not cost effective to operate in a manor that has you reporting losses
year over year just to compete with hobby low ball sellers.

Selling a commodity product and competing with low ball megacorporate sellers (GoDaddy) that have a 50%+ marketshare and an unlimited ad budget is even worse than competing with low ball hobby sellers .Â You have to compete on price to get customers when the competition is spending millions on advertising and the product is a commodity.
[/quote]

eBay sellers get it from both ends.Â Bootyshake

--the low ball hobby sellers who are cleaning out their garages and will take any price and the low ball corporate sellers who are liquidating merchandise and will take any priceÂ BangHead

xppman · 10-01-2006, 06:45 PM,

I see what your saying regic but one thing you have none of them EVER will is customer service.

I read threads about all these mega companies and their terrible CS and products.
Even though we all want more for less. I really do see a trend away from the mega companies
and a back lash against these companies by their customers when ever possible.

You guys are in a tuff market to begin with and that really makes it harder but you rock
in service so as a result will get more business and loyal customers to boot IMO.

But the type I'm referring to are those hobby sellers that SEE someone else is
successful in a market and decides to take up that market as their hobby.

Like my little upside down boinktard buddy.

He's on ebay selling similar products to mine and at 6.95 each + Shipping.
I know for a fact he is paying upwards to 4.00 just for the materials to make these products
6.95 (his asking price) just to get a sale?
Now consider the time to build them, the electric, the tooling (saw blades, drill bits, sand paper, hardware etc.) and this guy is loosing money just to play on eBay.

Add it all up and include the listing fees and PP fees and it's even worst,
and to top it off he is now listing FP format and offering 8 to 10 items each and selling maybe
1 or 2 in a batch at an inflated Fixed price listing format.

Now I don't mind about an occasional part timer who is selling their stuff from around the house.
But when they SEE others trying to sell it full time and decided to copy cat others and then litter the listings with cheap knock offs and low ball prices just to be able to play?

That is when people like me say it's time to get out.
It's like Jens analogy about some guy coming along and selling their products
on the back of his used yugo, parked in front of your front door.
It's unacceptable.

I know I'm not alone when I say I'm not selling on line just for the fun off it.
It's what feeds my family and when these morons come along, copy us and then
dilute the prices like we have seen done on eBay, it just makes me want to get a gun,
knock on their door, and put them out of my misery.

thentavius · 10-02-2006, 03:03 AM,

Maybe a better term for the parked-Yugo type of seller is "novelty seller"? The type of person who thinks it's "cool" to sell their used sandals for $1.00 on eBay, because, afterall, it's cool to sell on eBay.

They tend not to work on things like expenses, projections, and business plans. They tend to think any penny they get back is profit, without taking into consideration the expenses of listing and complexity of profit margins.

Lookie! I sold my old pair of sneakers for $5.00. I'm doing so great on eBay. I wouldn't get $0.25 for them at a garage sale...

In this respect, I would certainly say that there's a big difference between hobby or part time sellers (people who take it seriously, but don't have to rely on it completely for sole income), and novelty sellers who are riding the fad and cleaning out the closet as if all the items in it were free (and any dime is profit).

Anita · 10-02-2006, 02:09 PM,

Thanks Jen and Randy for your kind comments.

Xpp,
Don't worry, Bob doesn't have a real job either. ;D

landofsmiles · 10-02-2006, 02:16 PM,

[quote author=Anita link=topic=5294.msg25981#msg25981 date=1159798155]
Xpp,
Don't worry, Bob doesn't have a real job either. ;D
[/quote]

Who the hell can afford to have a real job?

But I am working on my next million-dollar idea, Anita. You'll be the first person I tell. Well, outside of my family.